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0.33 PTS

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https://aw.my.games/en/news/general/033-pts-stage-1-now-available

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The main features of Update 0.33 “Spirithaven” include:

  • Tier 7-10 Rebalance
  • Mobility overhaul
  • New contract with 2T Stalker
  • Visual model fixes
  • Lots of shader and other optimizations that should significantly improve the game’s performance

You can read more about the main features in a dedicated article. For more details, please check the patchnotes below.

 

Testing Details

 

The PTS is only available between 17:00 and 21:00 CEST. The initial Update 0.33 testing phase will take place in two stages:

  • The first stage starts now and will take place until August 24
  • The second stage will begin on August 24 and will take place until August 28

We’d like to receive your feedback for both. We are mostly interested in any bugs you may encounter as well as your opinion regarding the Tier 7-10 rebalance. Please see below for the details regarding how to submit it. In order to reward you for your efforts, the following prizes will be awarded to your main server account:

  • Win 12 PvE missions on the PTS server to receive 5 Platinum boosters and 5.000 Battle Coins
  • Win 12 PvP matches on the PTS server to receive 5 Platinum boosters and 5.000 Battle Coins

These rewards will be sent after the end of the 0.33 PTS phase.

Submitting Feedback

 

Please submit two categories of feedback:

You can of course, as usual, discuss all Update 0.33 PTS matters in our dedicated Discord channel.

 

And the actual patch notes:

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Update 0.33 – Preliminary Patchnotes

 

 

Gameplay Mechanisms

 

Tier 7-10 Rebalance

The previously announced Tier 7-10 rebalance is here. We've significantly changed the parameters of all vehicles on these Tiers in order to reduce power creep and significantly improve high-Tier gameplay. As this is a very complex topic with pretty much everything changing, we will not be posting every single update to vehicle characteristics. Instead, you can read about the rationale behind these changes in our four-part series of articles:

In general, this includes:

  • General rebalance of armor values for all MBTs on these Tiers along with numerous bug fixes
  • General rebalance of shell penetration values for all vehicles on these Tiers
  • Significantly reduced the Smoke Grenade and Smokescreen cooldowns
  • MBTs now have more smoke charges than the other classes
  • Mobility improvements (described below)

Shell Changes

In connection with the abovementioned Tier 7-10 rebalance, we are also changing some shell mechanics to better fit the new system:

  • HEAT shells lose their thin armor penetration damage bonus, their basic damage value is increased to compensate for this change (the bonus did not work correctly and led so some incorrect damage values)
  • HEAT and HEAT-MP shells of the same caliber now deal different damage (HEAT-MP shells do slightly less to compensate for the fact they retain their HE component)
  • Kinetic shells now lose more penetration with distance (HEAT shells do not lose any whatsoever) – this change was made in order to make penetration loss a thing since the effect it had on gameplay was negligible and to implement the intended MBT gameplay, described in our dedicated article
  • ATGMs in general now deal damage even upon non-penetration – after all, an ATGM is typically a huge flying explosive warhead that does tons of damage even upon non-penetration and given how many obstacles it has to overcome (low flight velocity, APS, ERA, composite armor), there has to be at least some reward for the trouble
  • We also reviewed a number of flight characteristics of all ATGMs because, in some cases, they were incapable of flying at their maximum speed due to incorrect settings
  • HESH shells now have significantly higher penetration but also lower damage

Explosive Reactive Armor Rebalance

We are adjusting the way the Explosive Reactive Armor mechanics work. In short, ERA will reduce the penetration of incoming shells instead of "eating them up" outright and will be made more durable and resistant to machinegun fire. Additionally, ERA kits are now split into four generations, each with different performance. You can read more about this change in our dedicated article.

Mobility Changes

We are changing a number of vehicle motion principles and parameters in order to make the machines of Armored Warfare easier to control. This includes:

  • Changed the characteristics of vehicle collision models
  • Changed the way suspensions work in order to bring them closer to their real life counterparts (this influences how the vehicle interacts with smaller obstacles or its steering and breaking behavior)
  • Changed the way steering works in order to make it more controllable and predictable
  • Reviewed the behavior of each class in motion (the MBTs now lose less speed in moderately sharp turns)
  • Maximum speed is now a more usable parameter since the vehicles can reach it more often

Overall, this is a boost to the mobility of all classes. The turning radius now corresponds more to what you'd expect and depends on how much you "step on the gas."

New Contract Campaign

A new Contract Mission campaign awaits you in Update 0.33 with similar mechanics to those used during the last one. This time, you'll be able to unlock the 2T Stalker Tier 8 Premium AFV with its excellent mobility and firepower. You can read more about the Stalker in our dedicated article, although please note that for the release version, we've decided to go with the single launcher version.

Optimizations

In this update, we are rolling out a set of many minor performance improvements. While each of them is a small change on its own, together, they should help to make the game run smoother. These include:

  • Improved shader cache stability and performance
  • Improved performance of static map object rendering
  • Improved performance of glowing map object rendering
  • Improved performance of long-distance vehicle rendering on maximum settings
  • Improved performance of lighting for street lamps, headlights, lanterns, fires and other similar objects
  • Improved performance of various visual and sound special effects of shell impacts
  • Improved CPU resource management
  • Object clipping fixes
  • Long distance object lighting optimization on high settings
  • Reviewed the user texture settings
  • Optimized chromatic aberration effect

Furthermore, we fixed an issue that caused some freezes and stuttering in battles. This fix is listed in the Issues and Corrections section.

Camouflage Settings

In Update 0.33, you will have the option to disable your own camouflage for your client in the game's Settings tab. To you, your tank will appear without a skin or camouflage. To the other players, it will appear as if it has a skin or camouflage unlocked. Please note, however, that old vehicles with fixed camouflage (commonly referred to as "reskins") will not be affected by this setting.

General Changes

  • Overhauled the sounds of armor-piercing shells
  • Overhauled the sounds of shells flying into the ground
  • Added a new sound to when you switch to a secondary weapon system
  • The Steel Wings epic medal (requiring you to win a Random Battle without losses or win a Global Operations match losing 300 points or less) is no longer awarded if the battle fails to launch due to server error
  • Changed the countdown sound at the beginning of each battle
  • Changed the ammunition switching sound
  • Reduced the volume of the machinegun firing sound

 

Vehicles

 

T-72B New Model

The T-72B Tier 6 Main Battle Tank has a brand-new model in order to address the serious inaccuracies of the previous one. The new model was made in high quality and from scratch. To learn more about it, please read our dedicated article.

Model Updates

Apart from the abovementioned T-72B MBT, will are changing and correcting a large number of issues of older models in order to improve their visual quality and to make them correspond to real life. These changes include:

  • Leopard improvements (including the suspension offset, higher texture resolutions, details and the correct 130mm L/51 model for Leopard 2AX)
  • Challenger 2 improvements (overhauled the TES kit appearance)
  • Vickers Mk.7/2 now has a correct gun model
  • Bradley Fighting Vehicle now has a correct gun model (and a new name, it's no longer M2A3 Bradley)
  • M48A3 was renamed to M48 in order to correspond to its visual model

Along with a number of other improvements. You can read more about these updates in our dedicated article. Please note that the long-awaited Abrams overhaul will come at a later date during the course of Update 0.33.

More Vehicle MGs

We are adding machineguns to the following vehicles:

  • 2S14 Zhalo-S
  • 2S1 Gvozdika
  • 2S3 Akatsiya
  • CATTB
  • EE-18 Sucuri II
  • FV433 Abbot VE
  • FV433 Abbot
  • Leopard 2AX
  • M108
  • M109
  • MBT-70
  • OA-82 Jarmila II
  • Palmaria
  • PLZ-05
  • PLZ-89
  • Panzerhaubitze 2000
  • Sho't Kal Dalet
  • Taifun II
  • WWO Wilk
  • Wilk XC-8
  • WZ-1224
  • ZBD-86

We are aware that on some of these vehicles (OA-82), the machineguns (while present) do not serve as actual machineguns, but as ranging guns. Their conversion to normal MG status is a necessary gamification on our part for the sake of game balance.

General Changes

  • Overhauled the reloading mechanism animations for the vehicles that have them. For you, not much should change visually but the system now works smoother, is more stable and the animation time now corresponds to the intended reload time listed in the UI
  • BMPT Mod.2000 and Bradley FV now have ATGM reloading animations
  • Improved the muzzle flash visual effect
  • Removed the fuel tank module from all vehicles due to them generally being pointless in the game. Yes, they can burn, but there are two additional fire sources in each tank, engine and ammunition and having three of them, especially on more fragile vehicles, is too much
  • Multiple vehicles had their UI hull traverse rate values recalculated to the correct ones
  • Fixed the appearance of multiple skins such as T-80U Shark, Centauro 120 Wolf
  • Removed the visual effect where the turret actually flies off or burns from below from the vehicles that either don't have a turret or don't have ammunition stored below it
  • Various grilles and meshes (such as those on engine decks) no longer get covered by camouflage
  • Fixed a large number of small visual issues on multiple models (small texture adjustments etc.)

BMPT Mod.2000

  • Fixed the armor description of this vehicle

Kornet-EM

  • The vehicle's status panel now correctly displays the ammunition count when firing with a single launcher
  • Destroying the launcher will stop this vehicle's reloading period and will prevent new missiles from being loaded
  • Fixed the reloading animation sound

Leopard 2 Evolution

  • Fixed this vehicle's frontal collision model

Leopard 2 Revolution

  • Fixed this vehicle's frontal collision model

Object 490

  • Added extra track marks on the ground for the frontal half of the suspension

SPHINX

  • Fixed an issue with ATGM launches for this vehicle

Stryker ADATS

  • The flagpoles are now correctly placed on this vehicle
  • Fixed an issue where this vehicle incorrectly had ERA mentioned in its armor description

Wiesel HOT

  • Fixed an issue where the ATGM would not launch from the vehicle's launcher model

 

Player versus Player

 

  • Fixed an issue where bodies of water would disappear on some maps (notably Ghost Field and Waterway)
  • Fixed a number of smaller map issues

 

Player versus Environment

 

AI ATGM Aiming Changes

We changed the way the AI opponents (bots) launch ATGMs at player vehicles. Earlier, AI vehicles could launch ATGMs in 180 degrees range from the axis of their turrets, leading to some strange cases where even players who are standing almost next to the AI vehicles would get hit. In Update 0.33, AI vehicles only launch ATGMs in 30 degrees range from the axis of their turrets and therefore have to actually take aim properly before firing.

General Changes

  • AI MBTs no longer use gun-launched ATGMs
  • Black Sea Incursion, Chapter 3: Fixed the Radar hitpoint bar and icon overlap
  • Arabian Nights, Chapter 3: Removed the Dune Worm Easter egg
  • Spirithaven, Chapter 3: Fixed an issue where players could bypass the closed gate in the F4 sector
  • Spirithaven, Chapter 4: Fixed an issue where the AI opponents would drive to inaccessible areas and then fire at players through walls
  • Spirithaven, Chapter 4: Fixed an issue where Magnus' vehicle could fall down from the platform
  • Watchdog: Fixed the collision model of the destroyed bridge that caused some players to get stuck on it
  • Fixed a number of smaller map issues

 

User Interface

 

Player Avatar Improvements

Player avatars and titles are now more prominent, appearing for example in your Friend list or, more importantly, on loading screens. This will become noticeable especially in PvE where you'll be able to show your vintage event avatar to everyone who's getting in battle with you. Additionally, your avatar and title will also appear in the Battalion member list. Now you can brag about your rare title or avatar to the rest of your Battalion.

General Changes

  • On the Armor Inspector screen, you can now move your camera further below in order to better inspect the bottom of each tank
  • When selling items in your Inventory, you can now choose how many to sell
  • Your Friend List button now shows the amount of your friends currently online
  • Improved the appearance of Outgoing Damage numbers and added the option to change their appearance point, added new colors based on the identity of the damage dealer
  • Added the option to disable Blocked Damage in the Outgoing Damage and Incoming Damage tabs
  • The game UI now features the status of your Mechanized Infantry (how many the vehicle carries, how many are deployed and how many are dead)
  • Updated the AP shell tooltip to show its penetration loss over distance better
  • In order to make the UI more comprehensible, shell tooltips no longer display the damage range. Instead, they show the average shell damage with a new characteristics, randomization, showed below
  • Updated the armor tooltip to better show the new armor parameters and ERA generations better
  • Vehicle Encyclopedia in the game now has an "Additional Progression" filter option
  • The main results panel for the Global Operations mode now shows the amount of objective capture points instead of the amount of spotted enemies
  • Improved the appearance of vehicle markers
  • When right-clicking a player in your Garage, the Dossier button is now on top of the menu
  • The maximum speed value is now rounded to whole numbers
  • Fixed the Upgrade UI (the positioning of some modules) for multiple vehicles
  • Introduced multiple User Interface optimizations

 

Issues and Corrections

 

  • Fixed an issue that caused various freezes and stuttering when executing some visual effects (vehicle explosions and such)
  • Fixed an issue with the spotting system that caused some vehicles to become spotted incorrectly
  • Fixed some issues with Retrofit number rounding (for example, instead of showing 13 percent increase, the rate of fire Retrofit now shows 12.5 percent since that has always been the actual value, only the UI number was incorrectly rounded up)
  • Fixed an issue where activating Supercharged Soft-Kill APS would not affect incoming Javelin ATGMs
  • Fixed an issue where enemy AI vehicles would not appear on the minimap after starting to capture an objective
  • Fixed an issue where your Effective Combat Time value in your Dossier would always be listed as 0
  • Fixed an issue where, in a Custom Match, the Observer would not see vehicle markers correctly
  • Fixed an issue where, upon installing a skin, the name and icon of your vehicle would not change immediately
  • Fixed an issue with the rotary cannon fire that appearing on the Alabino map
  • The "Eyes" decal now mirrors properly
  • Fixed a number of issues that could cause the game to crash

 

 

List of currently known issues:

  • M1A1 and M1A2 MBTs may not be present in your Garage (restarting the client should help)
  • We tried to awared all of you with the vehicles from the list above for testing but in some cases, this failed. It will be remedied in the near future

 


Spoiler

 

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  • Overhauled the reloading mechanism animations for the vehicles that have them. For you, not much should change visually but the system now works smoother, is more stable and the animation time now corresponds to the intended reload time listed in the UI

This is huge for the vehicles that were affected by this bug.  Some of those animations took as much as 5 seconds that wasn't counted as part of the reload.

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Good ERA changes, much more realistic, also means higher pen HEAT/ATGM's might now be more worth it.

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Posted (edited)

quick info dump from the pts:

Challengers ( except the Challenger 1)  are severely weaker than their counterparts the whole lower glacis is a weakspot, the gun handling buffs don't help with the fact their weak penetration forces pixel hunting against other tanks while they shoot your massive lower plate, with the mobility changes they are the big losers. 

the new chip damage is gonna kill pve at this rate extremely fast with the amount of ATGMs spammed   

Ammunition

HESH and PISH loss 33% damage going from 900 on live to 600 on pts in return PISH only got a 10mm penetration increase from 600 to 610.

HEAT and ATGMs have had penetration and alpha increases its insane pulling out 1.1k alpha hits using LEO 2AX HEATMP rounds.     

Edited by LeoAegisMaximus (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)

My general feeling about the PTS is that the changes reduce or even remove incentives to improve your gameplay and promote a more passive and arguably less enjoyable playstyle. Furthermore, the PTS arguably does not achieve the stated goals of reducing vehicle imbalance. I see this in a few ways that I'm going to list out and explain.

 

1) HEAT Changes

I'm first going to outline how HEAT more or less currently works. HEAT damage is based off of 3 values, the armor thickness of where you're hitting, the RNG damage roll of your shell, and the RNG penetration roll. If the penetration roll is more than the armor thickness, you do damage based on the RNG damage roll (HEAT-MP is an exception). HOWEVER, you get a bonus based on how much your penetration roll is higher than the armor thickness. This means that hitting thinner armor will generally reward you with more damage up to a point. This is where the maximum bonus damage stat on HEAT rounds comes in. With HEAT-MP, you'll deal some damage even if you don't penetrate.

What does this mean though? This means that you get more damage for hitting weaker armor. This is an incentive for learning weakspots, being patient by waiting for bots to turn, and practicing your aim which will improve your gameplay.

Let's compare this to the current PTS system where HEAT damage is flattened. Learning weakspots is no longer comes with additional incentives to improve your gameplay. The ability to instantly change ammo also makes this worse. Instead of trying to manually find weakspots, you can just swap to AP to lolpen MBTs through their LFP. Speaking of MBT LFPs,

2) Armor Layout Changes

Once again, I'll start by explaining how the current armor layouts are generally structured. MBTs will typically come with multiple weakspots from the front. I'll give some examples. The T-14 has a LFP and turret ring. The XM1A3 has a weakspot under the mantelet and a vulnerable hull. The CATTB has multiple strips along the hull front that can be penetrated (with some difficulty) and a viewport on the top of the turret. The ATDU has a weak strip along the LFP and a driver's port weakspot. Notice how tanks mostly have multiple weakpoints that are placed around the front of the vehicle.

What does this mean though? This means that every vehicle has a semi unique armor layout that is generally distributed around the vehicle. This means that each vehicle has unique weakspots that you have to work around. It is incentivized to learn armor layouts of each individual vehicle so you can find the weakspots faster.

Let's compare this to the current PTS system where MBT armor schemes have been adjusted. If you look though each vehicle, you'll see a pattern. Everything is red except for a green strip along the bottom of the vehicle. The LFP is now a universal weakspot. While this on it's own would be fine, it also comes with a removal of all other weakspots. The T-14 turret ring is now virtually invulnerable. The XM1A3 has lost it's weakspot under the mantelet. The only exception is the Leopard 2AX which has kept its weakspot under the mantelet. There is now less of an incentive to learn weakspots and spend time studying armor layouts because every MBT essentially follows the same formula of weakspots. Speaking of studying armor layouts,

3) Fuel Tank Removal

Fuel tanks are one of three fire sources on a vehicle. Considering the RNG nature of engine fires, fuel tanks can be considered to be one of two consistent sources of fire. By studying armor layouts, you can learn where to shoot a vehicle to destroy fuel tanks or ammo racks to set enemies on fire. 

What does this mean though? This rewards careful aim and experience with the potetial to set fires that can drastically increase a vehicle's damage potential. This is a further incentive for properly aiming shots and targeting modules.

With the removal of the fuel tank, it is now more difficult to set enemies on fire since the number of consistent sources of fire has been cut in half. This reduces the incentive to learn module placement as you will be rewarded with additional fire damage less often.

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These 3 issues are the biggest ways I can see the 0.33 PTS undermining incentives to improve gameplay. I'm going to move on to how I can see the 0.33 PTS changing the meta negatively.

 

1) MBT armor

With the armor layout changes, the LFPs of MBTs were often weakened and expanded, especially on frontline MBTs such as the ATDU. This will most likely result in more passive MBT play, despite the intentions of the developers. This will be compounded by the AP penetration fall-off at long range. MBTs are incentivized to hold positions where their weakspots are hidden and harder to penetrate at range. This will result in less MBTs being willing to push out and expose their weakspots in order to play aggressively.

2) Chip damage

The ability for ATGMs to constantly do damage even on non-penetrations is a massive pain. This once again disincentivizes good play by making it impossible to completely avoid damage. The existence of chip damage in PvE already existed when BMP-3s fired HE and still exists as Ramka-99s still fire thermobaric ATGMs. Chip damage makes constant aggressive play difficult in PvE as you will constantly be losing health whenever you expose yourself to deal damage.

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Potential influences on gameplay are all theoretical until all vehicles are released on the 0.33 PTS and such. As such, I won't spend too much time on it and I'll start talking about imbalances I see and gripes I have with individual tanks and mechanics.

 

1) HEAT-MP vs. HEAT-FS & HEAT-T

HEAT-MP might as well stand for HEAT-MyPenis because MBT HEAT-MP is highly inadequate. While the logic of reducing HEAT-MP damage to compensate for damage on non-penetrations does make sense, it is taken too far with HEAT-MP. In virtually all cases on MBTs (mainly NATO MBTs), HEAT-MP will have identical damage to AP. Compared to the massive HEAT damage dealt by HEAT-FS and HEAT-T, HEAT-MP is honestly useless. The best comparison is probably between the 140mm cannons on the XM1A3 and the 99A2-140 which use HEAT-MP and HEAT. The XM1A3 HEAT-MP has 900 damage and 940mm of penetration. Meanwhile, the 99A2-140 HEAT has 1240 damage and 950mm of penetration. Losing out on over 300 damage for the ability to do 180 damage on non-penetrations is a pathetic trade and results in a shell that is about as potent as the semen of an 84 year old man. In fact, the XM1A3 HEAT-MP is also beaten by the Leopard 2AX's 130mm HEAT-T shells that have 1100mm of penetration and 1025 damage. Even if the 2AX and 99A2-140 HEAT shells will not deal damage if they don't pen, this is not an issue for experienced players and only results in the XM1A3 not being a competitive vehicle at higher skill levels.

2) The Tragedy of Darth ATDU

Where to start with the poor ATDU. Not only did it lose its frontal protection with the addition of a massive LFP, the side armor is now worthless as well. Whether the side armor is unintentional or not is honestly still up in the air. But possibly the greatest tragedy is the loss of the ATDU's only gimmick. The ATDU used to be the only high tier vehicle with a viable HESH round. Not anymore. The extra penetration the PISH shell receives is not enough to offset the massive drop in alpha damage and the loss of the ability to go through cage armor. Even if the PISH shell can now brute force through a Merkava 4M's UFP, it doesn't matter if the shell no longer has the module damage that allowed it to brutalize ammo racks and other internal modules. During the PTS, I platooned up with 4 other people in various vehicles. The ATDU now ammoracks people more consistently with AP than PISH. PISH is truly PISS now.

3) T-15 Buffed

The armor changes in the 0.33 PTS also applied to the T-15. If you recall, turret ring weakspots were buffed on most vehicles. Based on gameplay in both the vehicle testing area and in PvE, the turret ring on the T-15 has been buffed to the point of being impenetrable by 2AX HEAT rounds. Most experienced PvE players will know that the turret ring of the T-15 is the best place to shoot a T-15 for the sole reason that the ammo rack is located directly behind it. While the frontal hull is technically easier to penetrate considering the penetration buffs across the board, you are now unable to reliably light a T-15 on fire from the front which will increase the time required to kill a T-15. Side armor is weaker but thats pretty irrelevant considering side armor was always weak.

4) 10 inch shAFT

In 0.32, the AFT has a maximum damage of 1128 assuming you get maximum penetration damage bonus and maximum damage roll. It also comes with 1400mm of HEAT penetration which is the highest HEAT penetration in game. As if this wasn't powerful enough, the AFT-10 now has ATGMs that chunk you for 1200 damage on average with 1500mm of HEAT penetration. Furthermore, these ATGMs will chunk you for 240 damage even if they don't penetrate. Considering you get a magazine of 8 ATGMs with 3.53s between shots and a 34s reload for all 8, the AFT-10 is about as balanced as a paraplegic on a unicycle.

5) ATGM Spam

ATGMs are probably the strongest ammunition in the 0.33 PTS. They have the HE effect of HEAT-MP with doing damage on non-penetrations. They get some of the highest penetration values in the game. They get bonus module damage for having HEAT warheads. They can also be manually guided. Even with the numerous APS systems in game, ATGMs will most likely be dominant in PvE and PvP. During the PTS, I platooned up with 4 other people in various vehicles. One of those vehicles was the Merkava 4M firing only LAHAT ATGMs. This sounds ridiculous until you realize that the LAHAT ATGM has the highest penetration at 1200mm and best damage at 690 (besides for HE) of all the ammunition types. This also applies to the T-14's ATGMs which have the same alpha of the HEAT shells despite having 300mm more penetration. And we were making fun of the bots for spamming ATGMs in 0.32.

6) Limited Uptime

Probably the biggest bug I've seen is the fact that the 0.33 PTS is only active for 4 hours a day. This is a very strange bug and it is potentially gamebreaking for certain player bases.

Literally 2 minutes after I posted this, the schedules got changed. It is now 6 hours a day on weekdays and 3 hours a day on weekends. Whoop-dee-fucking-doo.

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I would have put in screenshots of vehicle stats but the PTS isn't up right now and I genuinely can't be fucked to wait for it to come back or to dig around on Discord for screenshots.

Edited by Bob_Magilica
Edits to make it easier to read and to update information (see edit history)
  • Upvote 5

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Just some more curiosities from the PTS client. Some sort of anniversary event in September probably, and the ZTQ-15 will be a lootbox vehicle most likely.

kfwpZ77.png

DX6Fp1Y.png

 

  • Upvote 1

Spoiler

 

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It seems to me that HEAT-MP should not trade top-end damage for its bonus, it should trade penetration.  I.e. compared to the 99-A2's HEAT which has 1240 damage and 950mm of pen, the XM1A3's 140mm HEAT-MP should be something like 1240 damage and 925mm of pen.

As Bob said, the advantage of being able to do 180 damage on non-penetrations is very minimal, almost to the point of being pointless.  Given the current test server stats, I'd MUCH rather have HEAT than HEAT-MP, and that's backwards.  HEAT-MP is a more advanced shell and so should be more desirable.  

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Anecdotal, but it seems like PELE is been improved, at least on the Hunter.  It's possible that I'm just seeing what it's doing now because of the improvement to the enemy damage display in the UI, but it also feels like PELE simply out-classes AP for the Hunter now.  It always did for other vehicles, but for the Hunter it was a difficult decision for me.  I kept tweaking my loadout one way or the other, never more than 300/700 or 700/300, and just never felt satisfied.  Granted I only managed 4 games on the PTS today, but I'm switching to 100/900 AP/PELE now because it's simply superior.  The 100 AP are retained for those rare occasions where they might be useful, but honestly with as good as PELE is now in the PTS I'm not sure those rare occasions exist anymore.

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Posted (edited)

After testing and playing on the PTS for the past couple of days, I made a document outlining some of the issues/concerns I found.

I would like to get some additional community input as well, so I would greatly appreciate if everyone involved with PTS on ArmoredLabs could provide additional comments/suggestions. Some points listed may be subjective, so if anyone disagrees or sees something already mentioned from differently, please comment with your opinion(s), explanation(s), and solution(s) (whatever is applicable). Eventually, I hope to forward these motions to the development/management team as a collective feedback form submission.

The doc allows editing, but I have no way to enforce rules if anyone decides to grief, so please do not cause mischief and only submit new/original feedback with valid reasoning/causes. Your effort(s) are much appreciated. 

Edited by di_duncan
Additional comments. (see edit history)
  • Upvote 2

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So i downloaded the PTS, only to relies it's only open 1am-5am in my time zone (GMT+10) :feelsbadsealk: 



 

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Posted (edited)

I'm putting these here, just some gameplay from the current PTS. Everything is... insane. MBTs are so agile now, even sliding on the ground during turns. My Merkava 4m Barak accels and turns faster than my Hellfire and AFT-10 do. ATGMs are extremely buffed, HEAT MP is trash, some MBTs reload too quick now. Terminator 2 has 55k dpm... ATGMs do chip damage.... HE is extremely buffed... TBs are extremely buffed. I don't know how they came to the conclusion any of this is ok. It's like they don't even play their game to experience it for themselves. Hellfire TBs have 1500 pen damage and 91mm pen. Even a none pen can range from 500 to 1300 damage from the match I played while destroying a ton of modules without using Sabrina. ATGMs have all had their pen buffed including gun launched atgms. HEAT-MP has been nerfed and is no better than just firing AP rounds. That said heat that isn't HEAT-MP has been buffed, but vehicles with gun launched atgms will notice their ATGMs do the same damage but have approx 25% more pen than the HEAT rounds. I played 5 matches, made 4 videos, was about all I could stomach of the changes before deciding I didn't want to play anymore.

Terminator 2
https://youtu.be/7SpTHEl5044

 

Cent 120 with only HE
https://youtu.be/Q2J3xinWHWA

 

Hellfire with only TBs
https://youtu.be/Il3ZwwQ3H0s

 

Merkava with only gun launched atgms
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHF6x0alRn4



I would rather deal with the inbalance of .32 then deal with .33. MBTs are way too fast. Nerfing their view range means nothing when they can yolo across the map faster than a Light Tank. Squishes like the Hellfire, most TDs, AFT-10, etc won't even be able to accel fast enough to get away from them. Also the new MBT armor layouts are pretty... disappointing. It's like they wanted to remove any uniqueness from the game and just give everyone a LFP weakspot and call it a day. MBT side armor has been buffed also, but with how fast MBTs like the Merkava can turn you'll never see their side armor anyway. ATDU got stomped into the ground. Its frontal weakspot has increased in size by 3 fold and its PISH has been gutted. They removed the turret ring weakspot from the T-15, its all red, including the view ports in front of the turret ring. The spot I use to ammo rack T-15s with ATGMs/HEAT now is completely removed, only choice for frontal ammo rack now is by shooting the unmanned turret for petty damage...

Skill has left the building. .33 "balance" is made for people with no attention span and incapable of learning basic game mechanics.

 

Fixed the embeds. -H

Edited by Haswell (see edit history)
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First impression. I like new drift style for MBT. Very cool. A little feel of "oversteering" and "drunk driver" on said Armata is cool too. Keep it.

T-14-152 is so good damn mobile. Every MBT should be agile and fast. Good.

Merkava 4 and T-14 (I only played on T-14-152) are big winners of turret ring buff in pve. I felt these tanks are most solid PvE-tanking MBT now, like 490 sort of. 

XM1A3 lost its 1337 HEAT damage for some reason with Cortez - bug (EDIT: or indirect nerf of CATTB)  ? In the same time HEAT for type 99-140 and Leo AX was as high as before and quite consistent (with Cortez, pve style).

XM1A3 and AX were not much tanking and per this PTS phase they are soft. Compared to Merk 4 and T14 they much more vulnerable and cannot resist much of this quite effective ATGM spam from bots. Correct solution would be a buff for frontal armor of these tanks, like reduce size of these LFP areas to what we can see especially on mighty Armata, because with such changes like in Phase 1 T-14 is new PvE meta - easy.

Biggest loser is ATDU. Yes, it is still tanking. But for a while the main key distinction of this tank was HESH/PISH + Sabrina. Now it is nerfed as effective ammo against soft targets, the single damage is reduced and fires happen at much rare degree. And tanks like Merkava, T-14 you cannot hit with PISH anymore in turret rings from front.

I honestly don't care about anything below tier 10. It was fine in PvE except general bot behavior, quality of spawns consisting of paper vehicles, too big damage of certain auto-cannons, plus recent N-Korean tank is overly OP.

I looked on new animation of T72 - nice for first but then you forget it is present. Model quality still fails in comparison to WT. Still, but it should give better impression for new players. Such thing had to exist 4 years ago.

Oddly, because T-15 was locked, these PvE games were much more interesting without them. Placing toxic uber-imbalanced vehicles (high view, armor, APS, DPM, extra infantry or radial APS) into PvE game by any cost and without thinking how to balance it (because smart people say PvE doesn't need balance) - that was AW was doing for quite a long. Can't wait to see T15 in next phase, considering how T-14 now operates. 

Last, graphics became even more polished, like ammoracked vehicles can now burn in several varieties and sometimes explode into pieces, so you can see these animations.

Most useless addition of this patch so far is showing very non-unique avatars to PvE start screen. Fine, so be it. If devs could place faces of actual commanders, or like some games provide possibility to print "builds" or stats of tanks of other players, this could have more sense, well ... educational sense. 

Edited by dfnce (see edit history)
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Bob gave a pretty good overview of the PTS in its current state in his post.  I played a little yesterday and found the changes to be overwhelmingly negative, to the point where if even half of these changes reach the live server I will probably stop playing the game.

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Stuff that I observed so far:

Positive Aspects:

- The new driving physics are great for wheeled vehicles. Overall they feel more controllable and less "twitchy" which I suppose might be a significant improvement for people playing with high pings.
- The increase of the salvo reloads on ATGM vehicles such as AFT-10, M113 Doomfire, ADATS,... is a great change and should be kept this way. TTK is increased and such vehicles are way less frustrating to play against. The salvo reload is still sufficiently low to punish bad players.
- There seem to be some small battle-UI changes. A good thing to unify everything to get a better overall look.
- The view-range adjustments seem to be reasonable mostly. Kinda hard to tell, as there is a rush meta.
- Some explosion particle effects seem to be overhauled, I liked those as well.

Negative Aspects:

--HEAT and ATGM Changes--
- HEAT does now generally deal damage even on non-penetrating hits (I suppose it works like HE in this case, that's what I experienced at least). AFAIK nobody ever asked for such retarded changes. Let me try to explain why I struggle to find any other description than "retarded" concerning this change:

  • The non-pen damage significantly reduces the need for player-skill. Some high-burst tanks such as the AFT10 can now deal quite a lot of damage without even penetrating the target. As an opponent this is a super frustrating experience (You can't do shit about it as long as the enemy has LOS towards your tank)
  • This change renders HEAT-MP useless. THere is no reason to use HEAT-MP over other HEAT shells, especially since the damage of HEAT-MP has been nerfed due to being MP. Basically all shells are HEAT-MP now with the exception that there is no incentive to use HEAT-MP over normal HEAT now (Mephisto is the only exception to the rule I found)
  •  ATGM receive a general buff with this change. We all know that ATGM were in most cases fine or even too strong on certain vehicles. Why would you buff them with such changes and make them even more versatile in their use-case??

- HEAT bonus damage against thin armor is now removed, instead you buff the HEAT damage across the board. What does this mean for the gameplay:

  • Basically you remove the need to aim for weakspots in order to get the maximum damage. It doesn't matter how thick the armor is as long as you penetrate. This means that better armored stuff (such as MBTs) are way more vulnerable against HEAT in general, as their armor now has no effect on the HEAT damage. Like this such vehicles receive the same amount of damage like a very lightly armored vehicle. This change makes no sense if you aim to increase the durability of MBTs.
  • Due to the facts described above this is a further over-simplification to the game nobody I know ever asked for. It removes a significant part of skill-based gameplay.

- HEAT penetration is increased

  • As if HEAT and ATGM didn't perform well enough already you additionally buff the penetration (quite significantly in some cases). This is not necessary at all and makes such ammunition types the new meta. I really struggle to understand how one can come to the conclusion that HEAT/ATGMs required such a significant buff according to the current state of the game.

--Fuel Tank removal--
- A further over-simplification removing the need to actually think something while playing the game. The excuses that were brought up to justify such changes are hardly believeable. If some vehicles are really suffering from the fuel tank increase the module HP. It's just the next step towards "Armored Dumbfare".

--New weakspots/removal of old weakspots--

- We now rewached the point where stuff gets changed that should've never been changed (Except for stuff like CATTB or Obj 490). Why try to fix something that was never broken? Maybe to boost the current chaos to another level.

  • Various MBTs received a significant nerf in protection, while (If I read correctly) the incentive was to slightly increase MBT protection. 
  • Existing weakspots that rewarded skillful play are removed, while lots of tanks now have hughe green LFPs. Again a useless simplification removing all need to learn anything regarding the game.

--HE shells--
- Some HE shells perform way too good now. (K21 for example). Playing HE only can now be a legit tactic. 

--vehicle balance--
-T14 Armata

  • No clue what you did with it but it does not seem to be affected by any mobility nerf to MBTs. Still performing like a ferrari.
  • agility of the ATGM needs a nerf. This is totally retarded: https://streamable.com/n7nkdr

-Merkava 4M

  • Totally broken ready rack. Give it fast salvo reload and fast normal reload --> balans

Possible bugs:
- When switching ammo on some vehicles it requires longer than the reload of the gun itself. While on some vehicles switching of ammo leads to a faster reload time. Something seems to be borked there.
- Wilk XC8 HEAT still has the 30% bonus damage against thin armor, leading to hilarious 1k+ hits against squishies.
- M113 Hellfire suspension behaves weird. You can get stuck at slight "stair like" bumps on the map. (Roughneck in the middle of the map is a good place for this)
- Meanwhile on Panama Canal: https://streamable.com/nxk55v
- The soft-Kill APS of the Armata is totally retarded and has way too much effect on ATGM. I even struggle to hit the ass of such a tank at a distance of 100m with ATGM.
- Due to the amount of brokenness of this vehicle's armor, I'm just gonna pretend it's a bug.

 

Added the new stuff in violet

 

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Posted (edited)

Edit: Updated post with some new points.

Keep in mind, this is mostly from a PvE perspective, but this game is 70% PvE players so I think it is perfectly relevant.

The Good, The Bad and the Ugly (so far):

Good:

-        Mobility rework – Credits where credits due, tanks no longer feel like toys on a road, but rather something have weight to it. I especially love how tanks slides around when you turn while going to too fast. Overall movement also become better – you no longer get stuck in the smallest of rocks but rather go over them. The physics now I think feels good - by no means perfect but a big step forward nonetheless. Well done.

-        Ammo selection - Although not perfect, basically giving every tank the ability to do instant ammo switch is a great change and encourage the use of different ammo. In some situations, high tier HE (Am mostly talking about the T14/152’s HE but it also applies to others to a less degree) actually have some use now because they actually do decent damage as long as you aim them properly. Encouraging more use of different ammo in different situation is something I can get behind on.

The (Really) Bad:

Balance problems

This deserves its own section because right now there are couple of tanks that stands out to me being way to strong and way to powerful, and there are also some changes that I don’t understand.

The Armor Redesign and "Weakspots" problem

One of the main features of this update is the redesign of many tank's armor. While I get what the developers are going for, I cannot fanthom why it is done in such a simiplified way. In essence, whenever you see any tank with some kind of armor, shooting its LFP = probably a good idea. More funky weakpoints - like the notorious XM1A3 turret ring, or the T-15 Armata's turret ring under its autocannon (which you can also ammorack if with HEAT/HESH/PISH). Those are all gone. Now its basically shooting the LFP and thats about it. Maybe thats what some of the playerbase want, but as far as I can tell, nobody I know liked this change at all.

There has always been a little meta game going on when you shoot at a tank. Some people prefer to fire APFSDS as their main ammunition because they provide the highest chance of doing consistent damage. Thats perfectly fine.

But more experienced players will learn about the weakspots of different tanks - and firing appropriate ammo at it will help them maximize their damage output in different situations. Firing HEAT at the front of a T-15 is risky, but if you can hit that little turret ring under its autocannon, you are rewarded with higher damage + potential module damage; at the same time, you also run the risk of not doing any damage because it is not a big target to hit.

 Yes - the LFP is easier to pen with APFSDS, but if you fire HEAT/HESH/PISH at the weakspot, you'll do more damage BUT at the risk of not penning at all. Thats something I really enjoy - Now that the devlopers has effectively given every tank instant switching of ammunition type, this changes seems 1 step forward, and 10 step backwards. Its really ashame to see the removal of these funky weakspot and going the easy route of nerfing MBTs' LFP. Please, reconsider such changes.

T-14 (and the 152)

They are unquestionably the best overall MBT in the game now. They are not slow – armor contrary to others did not get changed much so the playstyle is similar; The relatively small LFP weak spot is easy to hide, while the unmanned turret is a big plus as always.

However, they now have >1000mm pen ATGMs that function like HEAT-MP + has 1000mm Pen HEAT-FS that does >1000 alpha again, and perfectly good APFSDS that has good pen. Its DPM is also now among best in class (second only to the Merkava 4M) on top of its huge alpha potential; I can get up to 11000 DPM with HEAT-FS with retrofits and Douglas. That is NUTS.

Their mobility feels decent – while not the fastest its certainly faster than the slower MBTs (like the Merkava and the ATDU). Also comes with very fast turret traverse to boot.

T-14 152: Similar problem to the T-14, only it has now 1050 alpha with standard APFSDS.

The T-14 Armata family is no doubt the winner of this rebalance. They are *the jack of all trades*, master of everything tank. I am not quite sure this is intended.

Challenger 2 ATDU

Look how they massacred my boy.

The ATDU is supposed to be the ultimate doom turtle that is accessible through the tech tree. Now it has huge LFP weakspot…for what? On top of that, the side armor is completely destroyed.

One of the ways you tank with the ATDU is you over-angle with it and you can hide your LFP weakspot while eating up shots with your sides – that is now no longer possible thanks to the enlarged LFP weakspot and the massacred side armor.

In comparison – this is the T14’s new armor. I am shooting T-14’s own APFSDS at both tank to demonstrate how ridiculous of a change this is.

spacer.png

 2BS5XIk.jpg

This has to be a cruel little joke from the developers….

Basically, T-14 has a smaller LFP weakspot, MUCH faster, has amazing HEAT-FS and ATGM, Unmanned turret, >3 seconds faster reload; ATDU has....? It’s not just better in PvE, its better in PvP as well.

This change destroyed ATDU's “thing” and compensating elsewhere is missing the point. Its armor was fine as is – its easily flanked, and it doesn’t really shoot itself out of trouble very well either. We tolerated its poor mobility and gun because it is the doom turtle.

Bonus: ATDU's PISH

Previously (or as working in 0.32 right now) – PISH is not that strong but it is a very fun, and rewarding round to use if you take the time to aim for ammoracks and modules. Now, not only it does pitiful damage, its module damage is so low that sometimes you need 2 shots to kill any modules – effectively completely destroying PISH. Why is this change needed? It wasn’t brokenly OP in PvP or PvE – it was a fun round for sure but by no means its OP due to its low penetration and require a degree of finesse to use. 10mm of penetration “buff” is completely meaningless and frankly it is unwarranted to nerf it so hard.

Overall, I think the ATDU needs a look at by the developers seriously. It was never the strongest tank to begin with. It’s quite slow, turns slowly, has the worst DPM among Tier 10 MBTs, and the penetration is among the worst (counting APFSDS).

Leopard 2 family

I think this belongs more to the Ugly part, because this is much less of a problem than the other 2, but regardless it deserves a look at.

Leopard 2’s armor is basically paper thin now – right up from the Leo 2 AV to the Leopard 2A6. Its only when you get to the Leopard 2 AX that your UFP actually does mean something. While I understand this is an intended balance feature of the Leopard 2s, I am very not sure about changing them to (Literally) no armor is the way to go.

 ud7Amnz.png

Leopard 2AV - I nearly thought its a Leopard 1.

skGk0hT.png

Leopard 2A5 (A6 is in a similar boat)

 

The Leopard 2AX is slightly better because its UFP is actually acceptable, but I have a big problem with its side armor.

P9QLIFK.jpg

Look – I don’t think it should have 0.32 Challenger 2 ATDU tier side armor, but I think this is way overdone because high tier auto cannons can effectively lol-pen your sides easily from decent ranges. I do not feel like giving it just over 200mm of armor is justified considering the whole of the side of it is covered with Appliqué armor. Considering you have to angle your front already to bounce any kind of shots, giving it a little more side armor would help it a long way to at least not be completely paper thin when it comes to armor.

Their mobility also does not feel that good compare to what was said. I would classify it as mediocre at best – considering their complete lack of armor, I am not sure that is enough to compensate. I would suggest a look into that.

Their gun is good – and thank god for the HEAT-T round which is great in PvE.

The Ugly:

The LT/TD Mobility/Firepower problem

Unfortunately, although the mobility changes are good, I really do not understand the reasoning behind LT nerf over their mobility and firepower.

For many LTs, their acceleration is completely destroyed to a point where MBTs aren’t that much or not even slower than them at all. I don’t think that is the way to go considering how much LT gave up on their armor department to trade for mobility and firepower.

On the topic of firepower – why is the nerf to the module bonus needed? Considering the gigantic DPM buff all MBT received, their gun no longer feels as special as some MBTs also have crazy ROF and much higher alpha damage.

If this is to be carried over to live server, there would no longer be much reason to play an LT because what they are special at (Mobility, and high DPM) are no longer special.

As a sidenote, this change also applies to some TDs – The Wilk XC8 for example now has nearly a 5 second 0-32 speed – that’s horrific for a wheeled vehicle; The Kornet-EM – a tank with no armor whatsoever and also lost view range – was also hurted badly from this mobility change. Considering the tradeoff they made in armor, I really don’t see why it is needed to nerf many LT/TD’s mobility. I really don’t fancy these changes I hope it will be reverted.

The ATGM chipping damage issue

Considering the amount of ATGM spam is in PvE, this is an absolutely disaster of a change. I know that there will be more tanks added to the tank pool, but considering most high tier AFV/TD has some form of missile – I am seriously concerned about this change.

I really don’t see what is the point of this change outside giving more power to ATGM – the damage and penetration buff they received in this patch is already enough to compensate towards the ERA changes, is there really need to change it further to improve its power?

That is all for now. Will do some more testing during weekends.

Edited by Nekrosmas (see edit history)
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I really dont get the HEAT/ATGM acting like HE if its does not pen....

Did the devs simply read High Explosive Anti Tank and think "A ha, a great new mechanic".

As i understand it, shaped charges technically have "explosives" but are only used to create the molten projectile and the damage dealt by the actual explosion would be minimal, even for "soft" skin targets

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Today's impressions:

HEAT-MP is garbage compared to HEAT.  (Compared via XM1A3 vs 99A2-140.)  It's a nerf to any vehicle that carries it, because AFAIK no vehicle is able to choose between HEAT and HEAT-MP.  It's still slightly better than AP most of the time, so my loadout for the XM1A3 probably won't change, but the nerf to HEAT-MP is a pretty severe nerf to the XM1A3.  Also as feared, the XM1A3 isn't good at anything since it's their "all average" prototype.  "All average" stats mean bad, because it means the vehicle isn't good at anything.  A vehicle that is "good" at one thing and "bad" at another can work to exploit what it's good at and mitigate what it's bad at.  A vehicle that is "average" at everything can't do that and so just feels bad all around.

ATGMs (tested on AFT-10 and Hellfire) don't feel like they've been nerfed in any way to me.  In fact they feel like they're better than before, which we 100% absolutely do not need or want in PvE.

Chally green ammo is now pathetically bad.  Your loadout is now 100% AP because PISH and HESH suck donkey balls.

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Posted (edited)

My thoughts on the PTS:

Please provide additional feedback to Tier 7-10 MBTs in 0.33. What would you improve? What seem to be the problems?

The mobility and vision changes feel good.  I like the fact that MBT should have less spotting than spotting vehicles.  The Mobility changes are nice because you feel like you can get to the front lines quickly and be in positions you need to be in to perform the role that you're designed for.  However, the nerfs to armour profiles makes them pretty silly.  

I'm really not sure why the armour profiles were changed so much.  Making MBT side armour almost paper thin (200-500) seems a strange balance to me.  I can only assume that making every tank bland, and basically the same, is an error or oversight.  Giving every tank the same weakspots and making them larger (bar 1 case) seems like it removes skill and knowledge of the game and reduces rewards for long term players who have knowledge of all the other tanks weakspots and what pen is needed for each case.  This is not a rewarding gameplay experience, this feels like it's pandering to make the game an arcade shooter which doesn't reward skill and knowledge, rather who can fire quicker.  

The T-14 now is a powerhouse.  It has amazing armour (best frontal armour of any tier 10), mobility and firepower.  Sadly, EVERY other tank on the PTS just pales in comparison.  It has better frontal armor than the Chally, it has better DPS than the Merk, it has better speed than the Leo.  In it's current state, there is simply no reason to play ANY other tank.  If the PTS changes get released on Live, I think there would be a strong argument for "Russian Bias" being actually true.  The T-14 can perform EVERY role in one tank, where as all other MBT's are shadows of their former selves where they don't really fit any role well.  The ATGMs on the tank now take over the role of the PISH shells as they will, frequently, destroy several internal components of a tank and have over 1000mm of heat pen.  If anything slightly angles against you, you can wreck it through the sides, or simply track it, flank and wreck the target with a 2nd ATGM in 5 seconds.  If it stays at a distance, then you have a topdown ATGM.  It fills front & back line roles and can kill anything it faces with relative ease while remaining relatively safe due to unmanned turret, great armour and a rapid fire gun.  

The reduction in damage to the ATDU Pish shells is strange, it's a niche shell that performs 1 task well and allows the ATDU to perform some what decently.  Adding 10mm of pen, but reducing damage by 33% is a crap trade off.  It can't disable things with 1 shots anymore, often requiring 2 or 3 shots do knock out a turret ring or ammo rack, so it doesn't really fill any role.  By the time you've done 1800 damage, it's piers can dish out around 3-5k.  Combined with the "slow" reload (of around 8 seconds) makes it a weak choice to play in any map.  It's armor is now crap and you can't angle at all as you WILL be penned.   

The Leo, while having a high damage shell, is weak frontally and will get killed quickly.  I always imagine it to be more of a "support" MBT, slightly behind the front line providing fire support.  Now with the mobility changes, I feel it won't really be able to perform that role as it will be playing catch up all the time.  

The Merk is interesting as having a 4 second re-arm on it's shots is pretty silly!  Highest DPM and great frontal armour.  Not sure if this was intended or a mistake

I did not test the Abrams line as it was clearly inferior to every other line.  

As it stands, there is little (if any) point in picking any shell other than a gun fired ATGM.  AP can bounce, Heat has been nerfed, so you run with ATGMs as if they can pen, they hit harder than any other shell.  If they don't pen, they'll still deal damage.  

Please provide additional feedback to Tier 7-10 AFVs in 0.33. What would you improve? What seem to be the problems?

The limited play of AFVs I performed left them feeling somewhat lacking.  With the mobility buffs to MBTs I didn't really see a need to test them extensively as they would be overtaken by MBTs with similar / higher effective DPS and better armour.   If a MBT is infront of you already spotting and dealing large amounts of damage, why would you be sitting behind them trying to spot for them and not be able to deal damage?  

 

Please provide additional feedback to Tier 7-10 TDs in 0.33. What would you improve? What seem to be the problems?

 

The only TDs that stood a chance at keeping up with MBT dps were ATGM based ones, or if it wasn't ATGM based, then equipping full ATGM loadouts.  They still fell short.  The mobility and vision range nerfs on TDs felt like it wasn't needed.  They are designed to get to a spot and sit there for a while, while being stealthy and wrecking things from a distance.  

Now it feels like the best TD is the T-14.  It has better / the same damage output with higher mobility & armour.  

With dedicated ATGM based TD's, I'm not sure the reason for longer intra-shot delays.  They have, in most cases, worse performance to MBT's.  The AFT for example, can hit hard with it's ATGMs, but it fires a salvo of 8 ATGMs with ~4 seconds intra-shot delay.  Once it has shot 8, it'll than have to reload for ~30 seconds.  Replace the AFT with a T-14 and suddenly you have similar / better performing ATGMs on a ~5 second reload, with no long reload, with the advantage of Top Down attacks at high range.

The reintroduction of 'chip' damage is concern as now, even if your opponent plays their MBT well, they can always be damaged. If, for example, an AFT can unload all 8 ATGMs into the enemy tank, even if you don't pen they will be taking around 1700 damage (1 ATGM blocked by APS).  This will not give MBT's a good player experience as it doesn't reward skill, it rewards lobbing ATGMs at a target and getting rewarded for it.  While yes, it won't kill the MBT, it will knock nearly half of it's HP off.  Now if you platooned up with somebody else who owned the AFT, you now have 16 ATGMs and can do around 3600 damage - enough to cripple or kill most MBTs, without scoring a penetrating hit.  This is not rewarding gameplay, this is making ATGMs the ONLY choice in any tank, on ANY platform.  

 

Please provide additional feedback to Tier 7-10 LTs in 0.33. What would you improve? What seem to be the problems?

A less armoured version of MBTs, with worse mobility.  It felt like they were outperformed in their role.

 

Edit: As if feels, if PTS changes went live, it would kill the game.  It would become Armoured Warfare T-14 ATGM Edition, or simply just be called Project Armarta, with the removal of all other tanks from the game, just different tiers of the T-14

Edited by Azdule (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)

So, I compiled all available MBTs as of Test Iteration 1 and how their Armor is changed compare to 0.32 + some feedback.

All tanks are shot at by T-14 Armata's upgraded APFSDS, which has 850mm of penetration.

For all 0.33 screenshots, the first screenshot will be at 100m, and the second at 320m (which is basically as far as you will engage in PvE for 90% of the time). It should have roughly 750mm of penetration at 320m.

Challenger 2 ATDU

0.32

nltIRIJ.jpg

0.33

vKZPYsJ.jpg

nCde0Px.jpg

Thoughts: The ATDU is the biggest loser of 0.33 no question. Even at 320m, the weakspot is at least 2-3x larger than live server (keep in mind, at that range your round has only 750mm of pen which is basically Tier 9 Penetration). At 100m, the armor is nothing but a joke.

T-14 Armata

0.32

Vc2ESrn.jpg

0.33

ieKAe1y.jpg

A3s9bEH.jpg

Thoughts: Contrary to the ATDU, the T-14 is the biggest winner of 0.33. Its turret ring is no longer a weakspot, while its lower front plate did not receive any change - if not become stronger thanks to APFSDS increased penetration drop off.

XM1A3

0.32

RjG8o1M.jpg

0.33

MqGM6fT.jpg

88tOQw5.jpg

Thoughts: You would think removing the turret ring weakspot is good for the XM1A3 - well, you are wrong. Reason being now, your ENTIRE LFP is a weakspot to basically all Tier 9 and Tier 10 APFSDS, at only ~720mm RHA against Kinetic rounds. Good luck fighting other MBTs which will lol-pen your unhidable LFP.

Merkava 4M

0.32

d7HVfSc.jpg

0.33

LUdBs13.jpg

2OkEK2R.jpg

Thoughts: Another big winner in 0.33 - the Merkava 4M. Its armor is mostly untouched bar the removal of the tiny weakspot under the gun. With the new penetration drop off plus now its best-in-class DPS and DPM, good luck fighting it.

Leopard 2AX

 

0.32

d5248w5.jpg

0.33

sKHotyg.jpg

EkwEzGG.jpg

Thoughts: This is one of the tanks where a good job had been done. Upper plate is now properly protected, but the LFP remain completely vulnerable - which is to be expected from the Leopard line. I would call this balanced - Well done (for once).

Type 99A2

 

0.32

qUzN1fC.jpg

0.33

yJ3GcBk.jpg

5XGjUMF.jpg

Thoughts: Armor is unchanged for the most part. BUT there is a caveat - there is now multiple roof weakspot that isn't hard to shoot at as long as you are taller than the Type 99A2.

3WW40tR.jpg

I am not quite sure this is intended or not, and you WILL get penned there by those new 1000mm pen HEAT rounds. Watch out.

Edited by Nekrosmas (see edit history)
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Spoiler

EHwxqNX.gif

 

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would agree with you on the leo armor except that it has an ammorack on that completely green zone..  even some heat shells will pen there now

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Thank you for the comparison @Nekrosmas. Interesting to see the unnecessary simplification of armor profiles [across the board]. However, there is an inconsistency with your comparison I would like to bring up:

2 hours ago, Nekrosmas said:

All tanks are shot at by T-14 Armata's upgraded APFSDS, which has 850mm of penetration.

On the 0.33 PTS, the T-14's Vakum-2 round was buffed to 850mm pen up from 830mm on 0.32.

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11 hours ago, Azdule said:

I did not test the Abrams line as it was clearly inferior to every other line.  

My deepest fears have been confirmed. Looks like Abrams is going to be even more useless than it is now. 

Thinking a few moves ahead, I wonder if the devs are trying to leave room for the next stage of power creep... so you can sell prem versions of each of these (newly nerfed) lines which get us back to where we are now...  or maybe just concentrating power creep into T14, so they can just render a  latest T14.2021.pink version that's just 0.1% upgrade from what everyone will be playing for those who want to PTW.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Quantum_Ranger said:

My deepest fears have been confirmed. Looks like Abrams is going to be even more useless than it is now.

It really won't.

Their reloads are significantly faster (significantly better DPM) and they no longer feature their undergun weakspot or their weak UFP against HEAT/ATGMs. There's very little that can be done to an Abrams if they are properly hull down. The tier 10 XM1A3 has two viable choices of gun, both with 850mm of penetration with their best respective shells. However, this is not to say that the numbers and potential of the line won't change...

My friend Shrek was able to deal 13k damage in a PvP match in the XM1A3 with the 120mm fastdraw gun (albeit cheesing with the ready rack glitch).

Plus, why would you trust the opinion of someone who hasn't even tested the vehicle(s) in question?

Note however, that I am in no way attempting to defend or uphold the current state of 0.33 (on the PTS). I've mentioned in my previous reply that I've already compiled a ~5 page document outlining the numerous issues and concerns I've encountered with the test server.

Edited by di_duncan (see edit history)

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