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Azdule

Echoes of War - December Battle Bath speculation / info thread

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So what do we know so far:

 

Setting - Post apocalyptic / Russian tanks - image.png.70ba2c6849dcbd6aec2121373b887e8c.png

One confirmed tank - Kurganet-25 - https://aw.my.games/en/news/general/development-kurganets-25 .  This will be a mini T-15, in TD role, 4 'main' ATGMs similar to the BMPT Mod.2000 (I'm aware article says 2, image shows 4 and SS confirmed there was a mistake - suspected in article), Bulat ATGMs (small 8x set) which are thermobaric &  a 57mm short auto cannon.  Can deploy infantry or use Super ASP.  I Imagine this will enable the tank to get around behind targets, nuke the feck out of them and then scoot away (shoot and scoot) given the removal of rear armor from MBT's.  I could imagine this thing being a powerhouse in Heroics.

 

The speculation is this isn't the main reward tank, but the 'purchasable' one - As previous BP's have had loot boxes, it was guessed this would be the lootbox tank, however SS has confirmed there are NO lootboxs for this one.  We have no idea the cost of this tank (re: BP coins) but guesses are 40k+

 

image.thumb.png.8c450ec6871e51c86530b69f8778e9da.png

 

We've been told that the BP will be the same as Enigma Legacy - so expect the same level of grind, missions & style of play - that is to say, use the BP tanks to achieve the missions.  It's stated as lasting 3 months so I suspect the same 90 day time limit.  

So far I believe this is all that is confirmed.

 

Speculation - I think the Object 195 has been bounced around before as a different 152mm Russian MBT so perhaps this could be the top reward?  There was news about this being brought in as a progression tank in 2017, but nothing further was done about it.  I remember a mod in official saying something about it recently, but then advising that they just got their numbers mixed up and meant the 490 so who knows!

News about object 195: https://aw.my.games/en/news/general/development-object-195

 

We also know that SS was talking about a premium SPG during his livestream coverage of the Russian Military Parade but it's not clear when this would be or what form it would take.  From general play style of the game, it would be very unusual for a BP reward tank to be an SPG as this would effectively lock it out of grinding any missions in PvP.

---------

BIG EDIT: Official BP stuff. -H

https://aw.my.games/en/news/general/development-echoes-war

Quote

One of the main features of Update 0.34 will be the new Echoes of War apocalypse-themed Battle Path and today we’d like to tell you more about it.

 

Mechanics-wise, the Echoes of War Battle Path will be similar to Enigma’s Legacy with the principles being roughly the same. Once you acquire access to the campaign (the price remains the same), you’ll be earning Battle Coins and spending them on Battle Path progress. Battle Coins will be earned either by just playing or by completing missions. Four mission sets along with repeatable daily Battle Coin Missions and Challenges will be available like the last time.

Completing all three mission sets will unlock the fourth, ultimate mission set. Once again, the campaign will feature several Premium vehicles available as a part of the campaign’s basic level progress. However, this is where things started to differ from the previous Battle Paths.

The prize vehicles obtainable via Battle Path levels will be:

 

Reward Vehicles (Click to Open)

 

As you can see, the initial vehicle will no longer be obtainable merely for unlocking the Battle Path, but on the bright side, the vehicles featured in this Battle Path are mostly high-Tier Premium ones, significantly increasing the total value of the prizes obtainable. To reflect that, the progression cost per level above Level 10 will increase slightly from 4.000 to 4.500 Battle Coins.

Another change compared to the previous one is that while each of these Battle Path vehicles do comes with a special apocalypse-themed skin called Vagabond, these will now be obtainable via standard level progression alongside the tanks instead of being locked behind various Missions. That way, they will become easily obtainable.

vagabond

 

Vagabond Shilka (Work in Progress)

 

Let’s talk about the Mission Chains because those underwent a lot of changes as well. For one, like we mentioned above, Missions will no longer award skins. Instead, the top prize for each chain will be a special Battle Path camouflage called Biohazard (one environment per chain). As for the missions themselves:

  • We have removed the unpopular support-based and kill-based missions, leaving damage only
  • Missions no longer require Battle Path vehicles to participate in them
  • Each chain was reduced to 6 missions
  • Chains are now class-based (one requires Tier 3-10 MBTs, one requires Tier 3-10 AFVs and one requires Tier 3-10 TDs or SPGs)
  • The final, Elite chain consists of 5 missions, each dropping blueprints of the Kurganets-25 Tier 9 Premium TD

This vehicle brings us to the final and the most radical innovation of the Battle Path. In the earlier Battle Path iterations, we always had one vehicle reserved for Battle Path Loot Crates. Players had to buy these Loot Crates for Battle Coins and gradually assemble the vehicle.

camo3

 

Biohazard Camouflage, Forest

 

This Battle Path, we are removing these Loot Crates altogether. Instead, we’ll have a brand new Battle Path section called Shop.

camo

 

Biohazard Camouflage, Desert

 

The Shop is pretty much exactly what it sounds like – a page where you can choose one of five items available and purchase them directly for Battle Coins. The items on offer are periodically renewed so every single offer set is available for a limited time only. Additionally, a manual re-roll will be available for 300 Battle Coins.

camo2

 

Biohazard Camouflage, Winter

 

On the other hand, they do give you the opportunity to obtain items as:

  • Kurganets-25 parts
  • Credits
  • Boosters
  • Premium Time
  • Premium vehicles (including Tier 10 ones and those from the previous Battle Paths)
  • Commanders (including Ophelia Kitescu and Alisa Korhonen)

As well as bonus Battle Coins (which can then be used for rerolls). The Kurganets-25 TD can be assembled using the parts you purchase in the Shop.

screen1

 

Kurganets-25

 

The Workshop will also be making a comeback, allowing you to further improve your prize vehicles by completing Battle Path missions or Challenges. You can also use the Workshop to upgrade the older Last Patriot and Enigma's Legacy Battle Path vehicles.

Other than that, the mechanics will remain the same, as will the entry price. Apart from the abovementioned Premium vehicles, the Battle Path levels will contain other rewards such as Battle Coin boosters, decals, Gold, boosters and much more. Of particular note is the avatar that you can get early on, but it gradually changes its appearance based on your progression. The existing mechanics will be described in detail in the FAQ section upon the Battle Path’s launch.

We hope that you will enjoy this Battle Path that is due to launch at the beginning of December and, as always:

 

Edited by Haswell
Added BP stuff (see edit history)
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From a while ago, I suggested the 195 may be included in the BP. SS stayed ambiguous as usual, but this is speculation fuel nonetheless.

epOw2rX.png

 

And yeah, no lootboxes this time. Thanks SS. :wubseal:


Spoiler

 

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Also had this (100% trolling btw but I love how SS is in on this one now for the time being)

 

Maus.PNG.7853cf4353783d74a5267645b48c65dc.PNG

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The not so exciting thing to me that following BP principle 2 of vehicles will be legacy ones from 60-70. Basically i don't care of them. Can be (one of many) BTR, Tunguska, there are so many of them.

This leaves us 2 spots for more modern vehicles , where traditionally one of them will be tier 7-8 and one tier 10.

For  tier 7-8 it can be AFV/TD - MANUL or BUMERANG. Also consider TOS or SPAAG Panzir. There is also quite nice looking T80BVM.

For tier 10 if it has to be  MBT - easily another prototype from 80-90, like even 195. Unlikely AW but it could a surprise in very positive way if they roll T90M.

 

 

Edited by dfnce (see edit history)

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6 hours ago, dfnce said:

For tier 10 if it has to be  MBT - easily another prototype from 80-90, like even 195. Unlikely AW but it could a surprise in very positive way if they roll T90M.

3 hours ago, LeoAegisMaximus said:

what about that experimental T-80 equipped with a 152mm gun Object 292? 

I'd be a bit cautious about adding a lot of 152mm Soviet concept/testbed tanks as premium or reward vehicles, but only because there are actually enough of them that the devs could make an entire progression side-branch of Soviet/Russian MBTs with 152mm guns and I'd rather see the tanks released as part of a comprehensive upgrade path rather than a bunch of premiums. To give an example, if you wanted to focus on bigger guns and more mobility...

  • Tier 6: T-64BV/BM/BVM coming from T-64A 1976, featuring Kobra gun-launched ATGMs and either Kontact-1 ERA (T-64BV), a 1000 hp 6TDF engine (T-64BM) or both (T-64BVM)
  • Tier 7: Obj 292 coming from T-64BV/BM/BVM, a modified T-80B hull fitted with a new turret and an experimental 152mm smoothbore gun
  • Tier 8: Obj 292A coming from Obj 292 and T-80U, hypothetical upgrade to Obj 292 using a T-80U hull and additional turret protection
  • Tier 9-10: Obj 195 and Obj 477 (and possibly one of the more conventional Obj 490 concepts) seem to be good candidates for the end of  a new "big-gun" MBT branch, but I'm not sure which vehicle would be best at which tier, more (possibly unreliable) information on them can be found in this external forum thread

There are plenty of Obj XXX vehicles that the Soviets built and tested but didn't introduce for various reasons (usually cost) that would be excellent candidates for high-tier progression, premium or reward vehicles, but I'd really like to see some (not all, the devs still need to make money) of them added as progression vehicles that F2P players can get their hands on.


For those of you wondering what the Obj 490/477 program gave us:
jvNVW7m.jpg

The final prototype/concept/mock-up (Obj 490B) is the one we have in-game as the Obj 490

Edit: Also, supposedly there has been an Obj 195 model in-game for over a year, so there's that...

hsmaGwc.jpg

Edited by MK_Regular (see edit history)

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14 hours ago, Azdule said:

The speculation is this [Kurganets] isn't the main reward tank, but the 'purchasable' one - As previous BP's have had loot boxes, it was guessed this would be the lootbox tank, however SS has confirmed there are NO lootboxs for this one.  We have no idea the cost of this tank (re: BP coins) but guesses are 40k+

The average costs in Battle Coins of the last 2 purchasable reward tanks were 50k and 62.5k.  That's what it cost to get 50+5 crates, and that's roughly what you expected to need in order to get those tanks (BROsat and Hunter).

Which means the next purchasable reward tank will likely cost at least 62.5k Battle Coins.  If their goal is really to make the next BP similar to Enigma's Legacy then there's really no need to increase the price.  In fact they should actually lower it, because we received other things - notably +900% BC Boosters - from the EL crates that actually reduced the net BC cost to acquire the Hunter.

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More screens of those 152-mm monsters, estimated prizes for the battle path. 

Object 195

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Spoiler

 

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And Object 490Aspacer.png

Spoiler

 

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Edited by tahax (see edit history)
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Assuming the 195 or 490A will be in the BP, what would set them apart from the T-14-152? Unmanned turret, similar hull design, big gun, they are all fairly similar to each other. Every BP vehicle so far has a gimmick of some sort, what could the 195 or 490A get?

I'm also assuming SS wasn't kidding when he said the 195 is boring.


Spoiler

 

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4 hours ago, Haswell said:

Every BP vehicle so far has a gimmick of some sort, what could the 195 or 490A get?

Imagine glorious 152 mm Russia tank with 4 shell ready-rack. Why not, Comrade?

 

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As the upcoming's BP will be Russian themed, it seems fairly likely that one of the rewards will be an SPG. IIRC it may either be 2S19 Msta-S or 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV as SS mentioned in the June 24 Twitch stream.


aMcZOFg.png

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On 10/31/2020 at 5:23 AM, dfnce said:

Imagine glorious 152 mm Russia tank with 4 shell ready-rack. Why not, Comrade?

In all seriousness though, a 152mm gun with a not-quite-TTB-style ready rack (clip and reload times average to be about the reload time of a single-shot gun of the same size) could work, and might be something interesting for the Devs to look at. Assuming it uses the same gun as T-14-152 or Obj 490B (both have a 11.4 second base reload, T-14 gets a 7% RoF upgrade), something along the lines of a 4-shot ready rack that can cycle in ~6 seconds but takes 15-17 seconds to load a new shot could be interesting. It wouldn't quite have the burst DPM that would make it cancerous to play against, but it would still have enough burst capacity (4x 1050 damage AP rounds) to trash most enemies and would struggle to fight back if it got attacked after emptying its ready rack - kinda like an MBT that specializes in abushes.

If you wanted to give it a gimmick active ability, you could give it the option to toggle between single-shot (with the same 11.4 second reload of the other Russian 152s) and ready rack modes (although this ability would probably need to have a long cool-down period to avoid abuse, probably at least 2 minutes).

Edit: Optionally, make a152mm gun with a 4-shot magazine loader with ~6 seconds between shots and a ~28 second reload. This would probably be easier to balance (both as a base weapon system and for the active ability gimmick) than the ready rack, and would certainly be unique and potentially useful.

Edited by MK_Regular (see edit history)

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On 10/31/2020 at 9:02 PM, MK_Regular said:

In all seriousness though, a 152mm gun with a not-quite-TTB-style ready rack (clip and reload times average to be about the reload time of a single-shot gun of the same size) could work, and might be something interesting for the Devs to look at. Assuming it uses the same gun as T-14-152 or Obj 490B (both have a 11.4 second base reload, T-14 gets a 7% RoF upgrade), something along the lines of a 4-shot ready rack that can cycle in ~6 seconds but takes 15-17 seconds to load a new shot could be interesting. It wouldn't quite have the burst DPM that would make it cancerous to play against, but it would still have enough burst capacity (4x 1050 damage AP rounds) to trash most enemies and would struggle to fight back if it got attacked after emptying its ready rack - kinda like an MBT that specializes in abushes.

If you wanted to give it a gimmick active ability, you could give it the option to toggle between single-shot (with the same 11.4 second reload of the other Russian 152s) and ready rack modes (although this ability would probably need to have a long cool-down period to avoid abuse, probably at least 2 minutes).

Edit: Optionally, make a152mm gun with a 4-shot magazine loader with ~6 seconds between shots and a ~28 second reload. This would probably be easier to balance (both as a base weapon system and for the active ability gimmick) than the ready rack, and would certainly be unique and potentially useful.

An interesting idea.  I like the idea of long reloads on it.  Ages ago Devs said that the 152 guns were not meant to be front line tanks as they'd have long reloads so they couldn't brawl, so they'd be forced to shoot and pull back a little.  Now I appreciate that their reloads are "long", but they used to be longer.  I think around 14s originally on the T-14, where as other tanks had 8s. 

I think the problem with a RR on it would simply be that it could just delete anything it faced, so would be very difficult to balance in any reasonable way.  

 

So as it's a Russian themed BP, we know that something broken will come out of it...so yea, problems a 152 RR monster that'll require several nerfs to push it to become basically unplayable! *Looks at CATTB* 

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20 hours ago, Azdule said:

Ages ago Devs said that the 152 guns were not meant to be front line tanks as they'd have long reloads so they couldn't brawl, so they'd be forced to shoot and pull back a little. 

*confused 490 noises*

A RR or magazine system on large caliber guns will be just as broken as the CATTB, never again please. Maybe just give it a high pen HE shell (~150mm) and use that as a gimmick, it would be situationally useful and meme while not being outright broken.


Spoiler

 

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1 hour ago, kachow said:

looks like another spaag coming

Wait, this is really happening? Brother of XM247 coming to shred PVE :megustasealk:


Spoiler

fdassdaas.jpg.c709df3e98adc5265f232fe9458a3043.jpg

 

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hmmmm, Shilka....

  • 4x 23mm autocannons with a combined RoF of 3400 to 4000 RPM
  • Fires HEI, HEI-T, API-T and APDS-T ammo in 50 round belts (times 4 guns for a 200-round burst), enough for a 3-3.5 second burst
  • Has a radar in a collapsible mount (toggleable radar ability?)
  • Mobility is meh (14.7 hp/t, 50 km/h on-road, 30 km/h off-road)
  • Armour is no
  • Can mount 6x SA-16 or SA-18 Igla surface to air missiles, but I'm not sure if these would be useful as a secondary weapon because they have fragmentation warheads (HE, not HEAT) that are relatively small (390 grams, about 13% of a 125mm HE round)

I'm not sure what to think of it yet. I'm tempted to say that it will be like the T249, but with lower RoF, damage per shot, and penetration (maybe something like ~20 damage, with the API having ~100mm penetration and the APDS having ~120?).

Edited by MK_Regular (see edit history)

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3 hours ago, MK_Regular said:

Can mount 6x SA-16 or SA-18 Igla surface to air missiles, but I'm not sure if these would be useful as a secondary weapon because they have fragmentation warheads (HE, not HEAT) that are relatively small (390 grams, about 13% of a 125mm HE round)

Depends on the guidance system and agility. The RL Igla has infrared homing and improved guidance over the Strela, with automatic lead calculation. A small warhead that hits the target is more effective than a large one that misses. 

Could be useful against the gunships and UAVs in GLOPs for example....  and if the Shilka gets these, why can't we have them on the Stalker (which in RL has SA-18 Igla as its second launcher, but this was not implemented in AW)?

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I found a better comparison for the SA-18s warhead: the HE round fired by the BMP-1. They're both 73mm, but the BMP-1 has 730g of TNT filler in its HE shells compared to the SA-18s 390g of HMX (which is equivalent to about 660g of TNT).

If the Shilka gets SA-18s, expect them to have a warhead that has similar (probably slightly worse) damage and penetration the he BMP-1s HE rounds

Edited by MK_Regular (see edit history)

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l8Wp7Cn.png

Shilka will be tier 4 apparently. Because it's not enough to have the York at tier 5, now we need quadruple dakka at tier 4.

So far the Kurganets, unknown arty and Shika confirmed. The BP will be full of RU memes.


Spoiler

 

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5 hours ago, MK_Regular said:
  • 4x 23mm autocannons with a combined RoF of 3400 to 4000 RPM

I'm not sure what to think of it yet. I'm tempted to say that it will be like the T249, but with lower RoF, damage per shot, and penetration (maybe something like ~20 damage, with the API having ~100mm penetration and the APDS having ~120?).

T-249 Vigilante and M247 Sgt York both had real life RoF of around 3000 RPM (in AA mode, significantly less in ground mode), so the Shilka with a combined RoF of 4000 should have a higher rate of fire than either, not lower.

If it's going to be Tier 4, I'd give it 200-round clips but let the player control how many shots are fired in each burst.  I.e. it fires until the clip runs out or you let off the mouse button.  It's not a gatling gun, so no "spin up" delay and no minimum burst.  Then a reload, then repeat.  RoF should be higher than Sgt York, but damage per shot should be 50-60% of Sgt York at best.  I'm thinking 17-18 damage tops... 20 sounds too high to me with the RoF this should have.  Pen should be sufficient to maul any same-tier soft skin or the rear of an MBT, but incapable of penetrating the front of an MBT.  I don't recall armor values at Tier 4 well enough to pick a number, but yours sound like they might work.

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1 hour ago, Haswell said:

l8Wp7Cn.png

Shilka will be tier 4 apparently. Because it's not enough to have the York at tier 5, now we need quadruple dakka at tier 4.

So far the Kurganets, unknown arty and Shika confirmed. The BP will be full of RU memes.

Don't forget the AMX-DCA as another dakka wannabe, in the right hands.

QR

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