Type 89: Just a Worse BWP-2K?

[Haswell 285]

So... I got this horrible thing. I need some strong convincing before I even want to touch it.

 

As far as I can tell, it's practically worse than the BWP-2K in every way.

• Needs 4 shots to match the damage of one from the BWP
• Only 1530 average damage per magazine, less than half of the BWP (3200)
• Less mobile until it gets the overprogression engine upgrade
• VERY HEAVY camo penalty on firing the gun
• No tandem HEAT missiles

I haven't actually played it yet because of how god awful it looks on paper, does it get any better? And why would I want to play this over the BWP?

[TeyKey1 118]

From  what I've seen on the testserver the BWP is superior in every way even though it's not a bad tank in my opinion. Given that the BWP is a bit too strong I think balance-wise it should be fine.

I'm close to getting it but not really hyped, as it offers the same old playstyle as the BWP. The ATGM are less usable (slower + hard to use in close combat). The Gun is meh aswell compared to the BWP.

[Qbicle 71]

BWP-2000 performs like a tier 8 in general so comparing it to most (if not all) other tier 7 AFVs would make them seem utterly inferior one way or another.

On the other hand, someone on AW official Discord server states there is a problem with the Type 89:

Quote

apparently it gets the MBT-class penalty on camo while moving (- 20%) despite being an AFV and having the Harder to spot trait and it's not just an UI bug, it DOES get spotted in situations where any other AFV (or even most TDs/LTs) would not (with 90%+ certainty)

ie just a quick comparison (same commander in all 3 vehicles, Seagrove, so no effect on unconditional or on the move camo)

Source

Hope this will get fixed soon or later as camo means a lot for most AFVs.

[Lenticulas 9]

Armour
- Not much, but hey it's an afv.

Spotting/camo
+ Good Range + extra bonus while stopped
+ Good camo + extra bonus while stopped

Missiles
++ They hit HARD. Usually 900-1000 dam. Controllable too. Fast firing.
- Long reload, so it's a good thing the AC works.
+/- Only 2 missiles means super-good alpha, unfortunately if you encounter lots of APS, the first always misses, and that's half your damage gone.

Gun
+ 200mm pen will go through most non-MBT things, (and actually the lower front plate of a T80-U, T7 mbt)
- Sounds underwhelming
- Just under 50 dam per shot is a bit limp, but OK for finishing things off/tracking, just not main armament.
+ Good sized clip, so AC reload is rarely a problem.
+ reasonable gun depression/ridiculously good elevation (for shooting glops spotter drones)

Speed
- A bit slow for an afv, although top speed is OK once you get there

Troops
+ Always good to have these

Misc
++ Since it's a premium, it craps money.
++ A FREE (kind of), T7 Premium!

Upgrade possiblities
- - Your upgrade options are:
YOU CAN'T.
- they are frigging well locked behind mission completion targets, so you can't even use free-xp just to get the engine or something (bloody annoying). AND it looks like you don't get to choose the order of upgrades either.

+ It's definitely playable stock, and you get the best ammo/missiles from the start.

Other
I can't compare it to the BWP-2k 'cos I haven't got one.
Everything here is mostly in regard to glops, it seems to work ok in pve. I haven't tried it in pvp
A bit like a Swingfire with an AC (although that's never going to sell it to anyone)

Edited April 24, 2020 by Lenticulas (see edit history)

[BumbaX 5]

Yep this new way to upgrade the Premium tanks you get as reward is quite annoying, I hope that the missions of the next battle path will count for it, it can speed the process quite a bit, but I don't see any other logic between it then compelling the players to care for the daily and weekly missions and maybe spend gold (aka real money) to complete them. Also some missions require to use tanks that have infantry, i am getting them way too often, and it happens that all the tanks I have that use infantry are with lev 5 crew and all unlocked, if not for the Type 89 that has a lev 5 crew and upgrades that i can not unlock by playing it, so to complete those missions I have to play 10 or more missions with tanks that I don't have any grind reason to play.

[knutliott 41]

Yes, these unlocks count missions from the next (and so on) Battle Path.  I didn't manage to fully unlock my ZUBR PSP until I think the 2nd Battle Path after I'd earned it.

I agree that it's a stupidly annoying mechanic.  I suspect that the intention is to get people to play (and complete missions in) Battle Paths, but at least for me it just means that I discard the vehicle as underperforming until some random time in the future when I happen to stumble upon it again and take a look.  The mechanic doesn't change my play at all, it just makes me think the vehicles are bad and unsatisfying as rewards.

Same thing for the huge overprogression unlocks on tanks.  1.6M additional XPs to unlock Trophy on the XM1A3???  "Stupidly annoying" doesn't quite cover it.  These are just bad mechanics masquerading as incentives to keep playing vehicles.

[MK_Regular 24]

9 hours ago, knutliott said:

Same thing for the huge overprogression unlocks on tanks.  1.6M additional XPs to unlock Trophy on the XM1A3???  "Stupidly annoying" doesn't quite cover it.  These are just bad mechanics masquerading as incentives to keep playing vehicles.

If you enjoy playing a vehicle and want a specific overprogression upgrade, isn't system isn't too bad (considering that it's still a time sink). However, if you don't like playing that vehicle or you don't want that particular upgrade the overprogression system is just a waste of time.

For example, I have the the XM1A3 and Type 99A2, both of which have overprogression. I like playing the XM1A3, so I'll probably pick up the trophy system eventually, but not any time soon because of all of the other vehicles I am grinding out.

On the other hand, I've already picked up the speed boost overprogression for the Type 99A2 which (in my opinion) is far more useful than rapid fire, so I don't really have an incentive to grind out 2M XP for an ability that I'm never going to use (especially considering that the 99A2 keeps getting nerfed every time I think about taking it out for a drive).

Edited April 25, 2020 by MK_Regular (see edit history)

[BumbaX 5]

@MK_Regular I agree with what you say. 

But some overprogression upgrades are relatively fast to gind, like the ones that improve the tank speed, while most of those that require a long grind depend on the player's style. I would say that the trophy system is always worth to have, at least if you like the Abrams, as you don't have to choose between it and other alternatives. For the others the play style matters a lot, if Defense is worth to have in most cases, as you can activate it when you don't plan to move fast and improves the rate of fire without affecting accuracy until you deactivate it Rapid Fire is only useful for those that like very close combat situations, as the accuracy becomes terrible, so if trade it for the mobility ones depends completely on the play style.

Also as the overprogression upgrades are implemented on high tier MBTs those that have still some commander to grind can use the first battle multiplier to grind the upgrade and a commander on all the tanks he has still to grind.

Finally even if 2M for some upgrades is a long road at least you grind a tank actually playing it, while for the upgrades of those Premium tanks that are given as reward you unlock the upgrade, so grind the tank, playing different tanks, and this is what I don't like. A daily mission that involves having the infantry can be used to grind one of those Premium tanks that has not infantry, you are actually compelled to grind a tank using an other one, a very dumb choice imho.

[Travlla 5]

Got it the other day, i like it, bit slow, but it's not a bad AFV , but 100% agree with the upgrade path being BS, 

[BumbaX 5]

It should become faster when upgraded, but I have not yet unlocked that particular upgrade, so I can not tell how much.

[Komitadjie 13]

It's just a sabre, really.  They added a slightly larger clip on the gun, and called it a tier 7.  But it's still basically just a sabre a tier higher. 

[BumbaX 5]

I don't own the Sabre, that I tested as rental a long time ago and that I tested right now in Alabino to refresh my memory.

They are somehow similar, but with some difference, i notice that the Sabre AGTM trajectory has been changed, if I remember correctly it used to be Swingfire like, very arched and very slow, now only is arched only at the start, then goes straight and fast, this makes possible to shot while under cover using the 3rd person point of view without the delay from when you fire and when the missile hits typical of the Swingfire, thing that the Type 89 can not do.

But the Type has a way better frontal armor, that let him survive to some auto cannons, while the Sabre has no armor at all, is a glass cannon.And the AC clip is not slightly larger, it is massively larger, not large to let you kill a MBT with a single clip, but enough to kill low HP enemies or kill many MBTs after you have damaged them with the missiles.

As I don't have a real experience with the Sabre I can be wrong, but it seems to me that even if similar they have to be played in a different way, the Type 89 using his missile + AC burst to track with AC, hit with rockets and kill with AC and sometimes trolling tanks with low penetration AC, the Sabre using its rockets and the terrain to hit while under cover and its speed and the terrain features as main defense.

[Qbicle 71]

Yea players' Swingfire and Sabre ATGM trajectory got changed sometime this year. I suspected it may be around when Type 89's ATGM minimal distance was lowered in an update back in March.

Before Swingfire's and Sabre's ATGM needed well over 100m to lob back down and reach a target. Now they need around 50m or less, depending how low down you are aiming on a flat ground. In a way they now behave much more closely to AI's counterparts.

[CaptKingNF 0]

I don't think its bad,  its just not easy button,  

 

The Accuracy of the Gun is pretty good,  and I have Rashid as the Commander and with the 50% less loss on fires for your camo is HUGE....

 

It can make money and is not bad,  The Gun could use either a little more Pen or Damage,  Other then that is probably pretty balanced.

[Komitadjie 13]

Honestly, if they got rid of the weird magazine limit, which basically nothing else has and maybe bumped the performance on the gun, I think it'd be really fun.  As it stands, I've got a lot of others I'd play first.

[MK_Regular 24]

I got the Type 89 the other day, and my thoughts on it in the stock configuration so far are as follows:

• The missiles are powerful with high damage and penetration, but don't have a tandem warhead and need to be aimed carefully 
• 9k DPM on an autocannon with 200mm of penetration is respectable, if a bit lackluster compared to the 9k DPM with 320mm pen on the BWP-2000 or the >11K DPM with 185mm of penetration of the BMD-2M and BMP-3M
• Gun handling on the autocannon is excellent, and the missiles are very responsive
• Mobility is adequate, but a bit on the low side
• It is looks like it might be surprisingly well-protected against autocannons, but I have not been shot at enough to test this properly
• View range is above average (but not by that much)
• Camo when stationary or moving slowly is slightly above average, but suffers when you move quickly and especially when you fire the autocannon in long bursts (I can get it to drop from 45% camo to ~16% when stationary using Lt.Col Rashid)
• Lack of APS or ERA makes it venerable to ATGMs

Overall it's not a terrible vehicle, but it's not particularly good without any upgrades. It definitely has the potential to be very good, but requires some amount of skill and game knowledge to use effectively when stock. Looking at the upgrades it has access to, I'd probably only make a few minor changes:

• Increase the damage per shot of the autocannon from 45 to 50
• Add an option for a continuous-fire autocannon that can be swaped out with the magazine-fed one (~200 rounds/min should give comparable DPM when using the same ammo)
• Add an option to either take the ATGM control unit OR a flash suppressor (reduces the camo penalty for firing by some amount) that unlocks at the same time as the control unit

Edited June 9, 2020 by MK_Regular (see edit history)

[CaptKingNF 0]

Why is my 89 killing all my Infratry?

[Qbicle 71]

7 hours ago, CaptKingNF said:

Why is my 89 killing all my Infratry?

It's a known issue from June 18's update (see thread):

Quote

Known Issues:

• When deploying from several vehicles (T-15, Warrior), Mechanized Infantry sometimes dies during the process

 

[Beeda2004 2]

Type 89 IFV

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Type_89_IFV

https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/modern/Japan/Type-89_IFV.php

https://army-guide.com/eng/product1411.html

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