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a branch off from another topic.  what is the total number of maps available for PVE.  what are the number of spawn points in each map.  are the spawn points consistent between tiers ?

does anyone have a list of spawn points per map, either just coordinates or pics of map with spawn points labeled. 

is this asking too much? is the general consensus is you need to figure that on your own because you should memorize the spawn points

 

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12 hours ago, Baron_Georg said:

what is the total number of maps available for PVE. 

36 maps, not counting spec ops.

12 hours ago, Baron_Georg said:

what are the number of spawn points in each map

Depends on the specific map, some of them have multiple respawn locations while others only have one.

12 hours ago, Baron_Georg said:

are the spawn points consistent between tiers ?

AFK yes.

12 hours ago, Baron_Georg said:

does anyone have a list of spawn points per map, either just coordinates or pics of map with spawn points labeled. 

With 36 maps it's a bit hard to list out all of them, you'd have to ask for something specific.

 

I did have plans to do a grand tour and detail out the specifics of every single map, including number of bots and AI behavior, bot spawn locations and timings, player respawn locations, etc. Never got around to starting it due to the amount of time and effort required, plus I'd have to slave away at the same map multiple times to identify all the possible variations. Not an easy task when a particular map would only be available once every 30 minutes cycle.

 


Spoiler

 

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19 hours ago, Baron_Georg said:

is this asking too much? is the general consensus is you need to figure that on your own because you should memorize the spawn points

For any one person? Unfortunately yes.

As @Haswell explains in his conclusion:

6 hours ago, Haswell said:

I did have plans to do a grand tour and detail out the specifics of every single map, including number of bots and AI behavior, bot spawn locations and timings, player respawn locations, etc. Never got around to starting it due to the amount of time and effort required, plus I'd have to slave away at the same map multiple times to identify all the possible variations. Not an easy task when a particular map would only be available once every 30 minutes cycle.

I might be a feasible community project/effort, but it could be rather difficult to organize considering the many different variables involved.

 

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I was curious about this sort of thing once upon a time - in the global chat we hear about the two arty hills on Leviathan (huh?) or somebody's honey hole on Cerberus where you can just camp all match (still unenlightened to where that is). I used to feel bad about bumbling around on a map trying to get the hang of it. Watching folks you don't know on the mini-map is a bit like reading tea leaves, because for all you know, they are bumbling about, too.  I really *hated* starting out in arty on the M108, because I had no idea where the arty was supposed to go on any of the maps, and entire matches would go by where I would earn zero. (Didn't spot anything, didn't hit anything, and if I was lucky, didn't just die from a big red ATGM enema.)

One way to figure this out on a small scale is to watch your replays. The bots do like to hurry to their cap points, so you can follow the trail of bots back to the spawn point.  Some spawn points just spawn a few bots. For example, on Ricochet, you start out with a large warehouse building on the right. The first bot generally spawns to the right of the warehouse, the second bot spawns to the left.  Another suggestion is that most secondaries seem to leave you near a place where you can re-join the attack pretty effectively... so even if the secondary has been taken by someone else getting there a minute before you, you can still try going there and looking around.

The other challenge is that some spawns seem to be triggered only when a player gets close enough. Some are located near secondaries (ow.)

On unfamiliar maps I'll often start out by following the big boys as a supporting vehicle, then watch the replay to see what positioning looks like. For the maps you commonly play, you usually want to have a couple of different approaches to any particular objective. Some ideal positions only have enough space for 1 vehicle between two rocks or other pieces of cover, so if one approach is occupied, you have an alternate path to hit the bots. For example, in Watchdog the hospital can be attacked from the left if you have already crossed the bridge/river, from the right if you haven't crossed the bridge, keeping to the water's edge, or from behind (again not crossing the bridge, turning right at the playground, then left along the back street.) Which one you pick depends on what vehicle you are driving, how much health you have (=damage you can absorb), and if you have teammates with you to help with covering fire or smoke.

So rather than a quantitative analysis, even a few big suggestion arrows about where to drive might be useful for those of us who are still figuring out the game.  Some players try to do this in-game by highlighting a map square (so others know to watch this / attack this / cap this), but unfortunately many of us don't know the best way to drive there without running into walls / mountains / submersion or (even worse) prematurely triggering a big bot spawn.

I can imagine the meta-issue that a master walkthrough might create is a bigger lemming problem than we have now. Sometimes the team needs to split apart to adequately provide flanking / covering fire on an objective, and having some public master plan that a huge majority follows may make it harder to split into useful squads unless platooned.

As Haswell and others have brilliantly described, the AW map system tends to funnel you into a particular harmonic rotation of 3-4 maps, even though 10 are actually active at any one time. So in the course of a play session you may see the same map often enough to experiment with it a little (it's not by accident that I can cite Ricochet as an example. Ick.)

DVC,

QR

 

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@Quantum_Ranger   you missed my point, not surprisingly because I didn't state it very well if at all.  In a different thread I was told by several people that ONE way to get better at the game is to MEMORIZE the spawn points(initial ones) as they have done.   now, I had no Idea of how many maps were involved but I knew it was a lot.  that question has been answered but as I feared nobody has the spawn locations readily at hand.  it would be easier to memorize one rotation cycle as opposed to all of the spawn points.   which leads me to another question.  If spawn points are so important to getting better at the game why is so little information available.  once again I am inferring that the good players have the information somewhere, somehow (locked away in their brains) and are not willing to part with it, despite my being told they ARE willing to help players that ask get better.  this seems to reinforce the notion that everyone must walk their own path--a sort of social Darwinism so to speak.

So math people, how many individual map replays would be needed to get a representative sample of initial spawn points for a particular map?  perhaps that is something I can accomplish and help myself on the road to getting better.   anyone have any suggestions as to which order to tackle the maps?   I will post the locations and the map here as I go through them.  perhaps later they can be aggregated into rotation groups for easier searching?

 

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You are overthinking this. Move to a objective, bots will spawn. Take a objective, bot will spawn. Defend a objective, bots will spawn. As long as you are not overreaching or way out of the intended route of approach you will not have to much of a problem. Priority targets :All vehicles that use missiles. Deal with them asap.

Basicly move to a objective, trigger the spawns and deal with them before moving on. This works on just about every pve map.

The only pve stuff you need to worry about is the tactics used in heroic and some of the later spec ops missons. Fortunatly there are alot of videos explaining how to do those.

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Watch what other players are doing, and if the trend of "damage dealt" during mission looks particularly good for them, try do same next time - that how you can improve yourself. These good patterns of positioning , usually 1-2 per a mission should be learned and mastered, exact bot spawns themselves are less important.

 

 

Edited by dfnce (see edit history)

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On 7/20/2020 at 11:09 PM, Baron_Georg said:

 In a different thread I was told by several people that ONE way to get better at the game is to MEMORIZE the spawn points(initial ones) as they have done.  

 

Yes, I was the OP in that thread (which started out as how to efficiently decrease reload time.) @dfnce mentioned memorization in that thread, but his comment above best reflects how I see  it. It's more about learning positions, and how to move from place to place.

I suppose the evolution is less Darwinian than Skinnerian.  A player drives through the maps and spends more time where the bot-slaying is good, and less time where he gets blown up. I don't think anyone is intentionally withholding information. It's just that the number of covariates is huge... 

 

On 7/20/2020 at 11:09 PM, Baron_Georg said:

how many individual map replays would be needed to get a representative sample of initial spawn points for a particular map? ... anyone have any suggestions as to which order to tackle the maps?   

 

I'm sorry I don't have a direct answer to this question... and I may be a bit of a slow learner... but after 902 matches, I finally earned a blue star. [Many thanks to the community here at ArmoredLabs].  Not that I care about personal stats, but it was confirmation that I'm learning something and there is hope of getting better.

The map selection is more constrained at the lower tiers. Quarterback and Cavalry are pretty simple strategically. For QB it's advance forward and take the secondaries. Next objective is the choke point at the refinery entrance. A few bots will spawn from the far left. If "hey, diddle-diddle, go up the middle" isn't looking good, the left side entrance of the refinery permits flanking but is guarded by a sentry bot. A few bots will spawn from the side entrance or occasionally the front once you cap.  For Cavalry one approach is to head out at about 2 o'clock towards the closest set of mud buildings, then stay to the right side of the big ridge as you approach the town. There are other ways to play the maps, but you will see a lot of players doing these. 

On 7/21/2020 at 2:14 AM, Norse_Viking said:

 

The only pve stuff you need to worry about is the tactics used in heroic and some of the later spec ops missons. Fortunatly there are alot of videos explaining how to do those.

 

Could you describe where to find these videos?  I am totally lost on the later SpecOps maps and an explanation would help me be more useful to the teams.

Thanks for the help.

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On 7/20/2020 at 8:09 PM, Baron_Georg said:

that question has been answered but as I feared nobody has the spawn locations readily at hand.  it would be easier to memorize one rotation cycle as opposed to all of the spawn points.   which leads me to another question.  If spawn points are so important to getting better at the game why is so little information available.  once again I am inferring that the good players have the information somewhere, somehow (locked away in their brains) and are not willing to part with it, despite my being told they ARE willing to help players that ask get better.  this seems to reinforce the notion that everyone must walk their own path--a sort of social Darwinism so to speak.

There are... 36 different PvE maps?  And each map can have as many as a dozen different spawn points that may or may not be used in any given battle?

I doubt anyone has gone to the considerable time and effort to write all of that down.  That's weeks of work, or at least it would be for me.  So again, I'm perfectly happy to help guide people and give them pointers, but most of what you're looking for just has to be learned.

Do as everyone else has suggested and watch replays when you get into a match with someone good.  Pay attention to what good players are doing and how the battle is evolving around them.  I still do that all the time, and I'm pretty decent at PvE.  You never stop learning.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but stop expecting someone else to do your learning for you.  In this game you pretty much just have to learn it yourself because the developers don't make it easy to create game guides.  We used to have them back when there was an actual official forum, but AW took that down and killed off a good chunk of the community in the process.  The community is now so far behind that creating guides is just too daunting of a task to start over.

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it seems that every time I ask something it generates answers that could be their own thread LOL

knutliott  please don't take this the wrong way, but your attitude is what I'm trying to change.   why do you think I or anyone else is expecting somebody else to do the work?  you are not the first or only one to chastise me for attempting to find out information that eludes me.  example a dozen different spawn points for each map that may or may not be used when I was only considering initial spawn points only as was suggested by someone in the "questions for good players" thread.  you say that you are happy to help and guide people and give them pointers then essentially tell them to go learn it. why do so many players have the attitude of if it was hard for me then it should be hard for you too.    if the information was freely shared perhaps the player base would improve making the game more enjoyable for everyone is one way to look at it.  another would be, how do I know how much I don't know if I don't know what o look for or ask about. 

My time in the military has taught me that information needs to be sheared for the mission to succeed. 

It seems once again a question is partially answered and has perhaps re directed back to the "questions for good players" thread :-)   anyone want to revisit that one and comment more  or am I flogging a dead horse

 

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1 hour ago, Baron_Georg said:

it seems that every time I ask something it generates answers that could be their own thread LOL

... attempting to find out information that eludes me.  .... My time in the military has taught me that information needs to be sheared for the mission to succeed. 

 

 

I sympathize with your frustration (and am following your posts in the hope that we might learn together.)  IMHO, you are beyond where I am in learning the game, so I doubt there's something I can contribute to your knowledge base.  To summarize your situation, as I understand it:


     You were H co 2/3 ACR, TC M60, so (with many thanks for your service) I assume you have good knowledge of armor tactics.

     You have a stable ping in the 121-127 range, so you have a decent connection to the server and your hardware is adequate.

     You have a tier 9 Leo 2 A6, and are attempting to play Heroics. You are getting a lot of shooter medals. So you are putting steel on target, and have a selection of vehicles to work with if vehicle selection were an issue.

     You have a bunch of commanders, including Philip and Freja at Lt. level. So you should have decent repair capability, and can live long enough to deal damage.

Perhaps you should post a replay of your best effort in your May 12 "how to post the recordings" thread. Sharing some examples about your playstyle might provide more cogent feedback from the champions. Yep, it might take some effort to do this, but probably less effort than trying to "memorize the spawn points" :-)

 

DVC,  QR
 

 

 

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Quantum  real armor tactics aren't what this game is about as it is an arcade shooter not a sim XD.  you have been reading my threads/posts but there a couple of discrepancies.  although I have a tier 9  I have yet to actually play heroics, I'm not ready for it.  the 9 is not fully upgraded nor is the commander, which as I understand it would put me a a big disadvantage in any attempt at heroics.  the shooter medals are in normal game play and glops but mostly normal play.   I have been hesitant to post a replay because of the drubbing I got posting WOT replays.  the things that were said there would curl you hair more than they would actually give you any help on getting better.   I'll get a drop box acct or something like it before I can post a replay.   I wish somebody else would be first so as to judge the level of toxicity I may encounter :-).    With the recent changes to the bots and how the perform anything I post will be somewhat outdated.  stay tuned.  on a different note, has anything I have expressed been what you have experienced in the game or on the forums?  do you think you are getting the information and or help that would allow you to improve?

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10 hours ago, Baron_Georg said:

Quantum  real armor tactics aren't what this game is about ... the 9 is not fully upgraded nor is the commander... I have been hesitant to post a replay because of the drubbing I got posting WOT replays. ...  judge the level of toxicity I may encounter :-).    

Thanks for your clarity. It's hard to get to know someone through posts, so here are some observations thus far:

You seem to be a detail-oriented person, and tend to focus on the particular rather than the general. It's a preference, like an affection for chocolate or berry versus vanilla. It's just how your brain works, and I respect that. You are trying to provide more useful details, I get it. I think you might have difficulty making the inferences behind each of the situational statements, so I'll try to be more explicit.

With regard to tactics, I agree the game doesn't demand actual knowledge of armor tactics. The spirit of the observation is that you have an understanding of how to use cover and concealment, how to use terrain, how to slice a corner, how to take a T-intersection with and without a partner, how to move through a choke point... it's the same tactical principles you would use in other disciplines/games. So whether it's with real tanks or WOT tanks, I was offering the assumption that you know these principles, and that's not the problem.

The 9 isn't fully upgraded (suggesting that it's a progression vehicle), so you should have a fully upgraded Tier 8.  It's a noticeable degradation in capability to move to a stock vehicle when tiering up, but the upgrades were really the issue, the solution would be simple (keep grinding.)  If you are not satisfied with your performance in a fully upgraded vehicle of whatever tier, then we should explore what happens when you have a fully upgraded vehicle.

Sorry your previous replay posts weren't constructive. Maybe you could set up your file share, then PM a link to a one or two people ( maybe @Haswell or @dfnce ) so their remarks are more private.  If you did learn something from their comments, you could share whatever you choose to make public.

 

11 hours ago, Baron_Georg said:

has anything I have expressed been what you have experienced in the game or on the forums?  do you think you are getting the information and or help that would allow you to improve?

Yes, I was at the bottom of the ladder until I started reading the forums and participating in the community.

When I started AW last April, I hadn't played a MMP game, ever. And single player shooter experience was limited to the MFS Sopwith Camel when graphics were wireframe (I mostly played RTS in my sheltered youth).   I didn't even figure out the "teams" tab in the match stats until I got to T5. Yikes! Even Arty was doing better than I was. I don't really care about personal stats, but once I got to T5 the grinds were getting really long making only 1500 xp / 25k credits per match. And I knew the tanks and upgrades were only going to get exponentially more expensive. Bumbling around in my stock T5 Starshi* was so frustrating, I was (almost) ready to quit. The only thing that kept me going was my son loves the RL Abrams, and I wanted to unlock the T6 M1 so he could drive it around Albino all day. I reasoned that the grind could be easier (and I might have more fun) if I was able to play better... that's when I started looking for help.

...

I have found the global chat and forums to be generally helpful. There are some noob-haters out there, but there are also quite a few folks willing to tier down to play with you. After all, those of us at the bottom of the damage latter actually do have a niche in the AW ecosystem - it lets someone else get their destroyer medal, if that's what they are after.

So if someone in global chat brags "I have over 100 prem tanks", that's the right guy to ask "So what's the best way to get free prem tanks?"  And yes, the forum has been helpful - a lot of the calculations and map values and stats weren't obvious to me, and that's been helpful.

For example, I never realized how big a contributor spotting and spotted damage was until my thread turned to a discussion about retrofits, and how vision retrofits help. I took the idea (does better vision help me do something different) and experimented with it (the 1-day rental Hunter AFV has excellent vision, so I tried spotting more with it).  Hm. Go back to the T3 M113 ACAV... spotting helps.

Light bulb moment - can I do better if I just keep peeking at the swarm as new bots appear, even if I can't shoot/pen/kill them? Yep. Adding spotting damage almost doubled my scores. 

Now generalize - if spotting is worth that much, maybe I should drop off infantry to spot near the bot runs (where bots drive by, but don't necessarily shoot much in their hurry to get to their destination)... they don't have to kill the bot, just see it. Wow. It's actually worth it sometimes to be the grunts' Uber driver as the front advances. 

So now I am grinding to get better optics as a retrofit, because I now realize how much vision helps. And I have a renewed interest in AFVs, so I'm inspired to grow in a different direction when I get tired of grinding MBTs. Cool... and fun... and that's what this is about, right?

...

The take-away lesson is that the forum provides an idea, or a concept. It still takes effort and experimentation to see if the idea works, for you, apply it, and expand on it.

DVC,

QR

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, Baron_Georg said:

I have been hesitant to post a replay because of the drubbing I got posting WOT replays

I haven't met anyone here that wouldn't at least try to help you out.

wot forumites are, well is: "hate filled, largely racist assholes" too strong?


"Yog-Sothoth knows the gate. Yog-Sothoth is the gate. Yog-Sothoth is the key and guardian of the gate. Past, present, future, all are one in Yog-Sothoth."

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2 hours ago, Lenticulas said:

 

wot forumites are, well is: "hate filled, largely racist assholes" too strong?

lol hell no

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On 7/24/2020 at 3:15 PM, Baron_Georg said:

knutliott  please don't take this the wrong way, but your attitude is what I'm trying to change.   why do you think I or anyone else is expecting somebody else to do the work?  you are not the first or only one to chastise me for attempting to find out information that eludes me.  example a dozen different spawn points for each map that may or may not be used when I was only considering initial spawn points only as was suggested by someone in the "questions for good players" thread.  you say that you are happy to help and guide people and give them pointers then essentially tell them to go learn it. why do so many players have the attitude of if it was hard for me then it should be hard for you too.    if the information was freely shared perhaps the player base would improve making the game more enjoyable for everyone is one way to look at it.  another would be, how do I know how much I don't know if I don't know what o look for or ask about. 

Because of questions and comments like these:

"If spawn points are so important to getting better at the game why is so little information available.  once again I am inferring that the good players have the information somewhere, somehow (locked away in their brains) and are not willing to part with it, despite my being told they ARE willing to help players that ask get better."

You imply that we're hiding the info (and making you do your own work) despite the fact that we've said we're willing to help.  You are chastising us for not providing you with the info you want, not seeming to recognize (or care) that the info you want is WEEKS of work to produce.

"you are not the first or only one to chastise me for attempting to find out information that eludes me"

I'm not chastising you for attempting to find the information, I'm chastising you for expecting others to provide it for you.  You're expecting others to provide you with an easy reference to learning the game... well, sorry, but it doesn't exist and the developers removed the one reasonably easy way for people to share information and help each other when they disabled the official forums.

"why do so many players have the attitude of if it was hard for me then it should be hard for you too"

Reverse that - why do so many new players have the attitude that someone else should do the hard work for them?

Documenting the information that you're asking for would take weeks of work.  Why do you expect others to do that work for you?  Why won't you take the tips that you've been given and use them to learn?

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Posted (edited)

so we start over.   I don't want you to compile anything.   I would like information.  if you feel that information is to much for you to give then simply say so in a way that is not ambiguous or simply refrain from commenting.      must be nice to be able to get anything and everything on the first try with no effort on your part.  my mind doesn't work that way.  never has and me wishing it to do so won't help me.  I HAVE attempted to use the tips given.  I have not been successful as of now.   so if we should happen to find ourselves in the same match don't fuss at me for not playing to your standard.  I am trying, harder then you would be leave.

Edited by Baron_Georg (see edit history)

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12 hours ago, Baron_Georg said:

must be nice to be able to get anything and everything on the first try with no effort on your part. 

You don't see the problem with this statement?  The snide comments and sarcasm aren't improving your chances of getting any help.  And yes, that is intended to help you.  It wasn't easy.  It took months - if not years - of play.

Do you have a specific question?  If you can set up a specific scenario in your question, that will go a long way toward helping me (or others) remember the answer.

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you don't see the arrogance in your response?  you expect me to operate on/at your level ignoring the fact that I have spent 4 or more years trying to get better without success.   you are NOT helping, in fact I don't think you can help me.  

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No, because there's no arrogance in my response.  For whatever crazy reason, I'm still trying to help you despite the fact that you're going to great lengths to reject any help.

I've said nothing about what level anyone needs to operate at.  What I'm trying to point out to you is that if you want help from people, you may need to help them understand your question(s).

How is it arrogant to ask you to ask a specific question?  How is it arrogant to tell you that snide comments and sarcasm are hurting your chances of getting a response?

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I agree, the only one hurting you in getting any help is yourself.

And if you have actually been playing AW for 4+ years and still do not generally know the spawn areas (or at least where they come from for like the off map spawns) for the bots are in PVE maps... then you obliviously have not been paying attention or just don't care enough.

You play a map enough, you'll learn where bots spawn, unless you either don't give a hoot or just don't pay attention; which sounds like you.

And I hope no one bothers to try to collect such data, this is something everyone who pays attention to the maps should know and does not need to be shown.

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There are very few instances of exact bot spawns which a player should be aware of, because quick destruction of said bots has strong influence on overall mission success

  • 2nd chapter of Carribean Crisis where bots want to destroy ship (bots highlighted and quite  static)
  • SO arty posittions - 3rd chapter of Moscow Calling Black Sea Inc 2nd and 3rd chapters (static)
  • 4th chapter of Moscow Calling with bots attempting to destroy AA guns (2 location, several waves, bots highlighted)
  • 4th chapter of Spiritheaven where 3 packs of bots want to destroy Magnus group (bots highlighted)

 

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On 7/21/2020 at 2:14 AM, Norse_Viking said:

....Priority targets :All vehicles that use missiles. Deal with them asap.

Basicly move to a objective, trigger the spawns and deal with them before moving on. This works on just about every pve map.

For me, this tip was helpful. I wasn't adequately prioritizing targets. If the team is aware of this, it helps focus fires.

A lot of the Spirithaven maps are pretty linear (can't get more linear than being stacked in a tunnel!) so the bad guys are spawning from up the road. Ch 1 Upper village is a good example - team gets sucked into the village trying to cap, and the next bot spawn comes from up the road. So if my MBT is arrives late after climbing up the big hill, I can drive a few meters past the village driveway and provide security rather than clog up the bottleneck entrance.

For me, much easier to have a few cardinal rules to live by instead of having to memorize a bunch of stuff.

 

37 minutes ago, dfnce said:

There are very few instances of exact bot spawns which a player should be aware of, because quick destruction of said bots has strong influence on overall mission success

  • 2nd chapter of Carribean Crisis where bots want to destroy ship (bots highlighted and quite  static)
  • SO arty posittions - 3rd chapter of Moscow Calling Black Sea Inc 2nd and 3rd chapters (static)
  • 4th chapter of Moscow Calling with bots attempting to destroy AA guns (2 location, several waves, bots highlighted)
  • 4th chapter of Spiritheaven where 3 packs of bots want to destroy Magnus group (bots highlighted)

 

Oh, so that's what the highlighted bots are doing in SH CH4. Didn't know they were a priority over the turrets on the mothership. 

Thanks!

DVC, QR

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9 hours ago, TekNicTerror said:

 

You play a map enough, you'll learn where bots spawn, unless you either don't give a hoot or just don't pay attention; which sounds like you.

 

you are ignoring a large piece of the picture.  I am a slow learner.   I pay attention, but the writing from short term memory to long term memory doesn't function like a normal brain does.  perhaps 10% stays and at the rate maps change the info that IS saved becomes useless.   and yet you'll expect me to function as if I were normal.   

perhaps now you knutliott and begin to understand my level of frustration at attempting to get help when the first thing that is essentially why aren't you normal?   Yep I get defensive  because people just brand me as lazy.  herd it all my life, lots carriers over it.   IF I could ask a question that wouldn't garner a why don't you just learn, don't you think I would.  The best I can do is how do I get better with the limits that I have in functional understanding as a not normal person. 

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