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Baron_Georg

view range & v2 mods worth it

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super frustrated at the moment.  have V2 optics and telescopic sights on EVERY vehicle and I'm constantly getting  hit from BVR (PVE) .  did this get wrecked in the last patch or is it me, and positioning.  I'm beginning to think the vision mods are not worth the $$.  couldn't get to the mound past the bridge in harbinger with out loosing 1/2 my hp, that's just the one that made me stop for the night and cool down.

 

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3 hours ago, Baron_Georg said:

have V2 optics and telescopic sights on EVERY vehicle

This is quite a bad idea to begin with. Telescope sights are only worth on vehicles you don't move much or do passive Scouting. So you should basically limit those on certain AFV's and TD's. On other vehicles you actually move a lot which makes this retrofit absolutely useless.

4 hours ago, Baron_Georg said:

did this get wrecked in the last patch or is it me, and positioning.

In 0.33 VR got reduced in general, especially on MBTs. But if you play MBTs the right way you should hardly notice that in PVE because you're usually quite close to the bots.

Hard to tell what exactly is your problem without a video or replay though. But bots do have a different behaviour since 0.33 and can be a lot more agressive. Probably due to the mobility changes.


Spoiler

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6 hours ago, Baron_Georg said:

super frustrated at the moment.  have V2 optics and telescopic sights on EVERY vehicle and I'm constantly getting  hit from BVR (PVE) .  did this get wrecked in the last patch or is it me, and positioning.  I'm beginning to think the vision mods are not worth the $$.  couldn't get to the mound past the bridge in harbinger with out loosing 1/2 my hp, that's just the one that made me stop for the night and cool down.

If you want to improve visual range a bit, you also need a commander who gives you that visual range.

Using telescope or not is entirely matter of playstyle. Like do you like to camp on second line and your turret is strong enough not to hide it after each shot? It won't help you on the move.

Just like Miramon commander won't help you if you don't meet conditions of (social) distancing.

For Harbinger, in low-mid tiers it is safer to enter city from opposite side.

 

 

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As the others have said, VR in general was changed pretty dramatically in 0.33.  MBT VR was nerfed into the ground, so there's almost no reason to every put VR enhancements on a tank.  A tank is going to get out-spotted by just about anything (non-tank) even if it has VR retrofits installed.

But on the opposite end of the spectrum, VR retrofits are still very useful on vehicles that should be spotting anyway.  If a vehicle's base VR is noticeably over 400, it can benefit from these retrofits.  I have my AS21 up to something like 540/640, and use Juan Carlos as its commander so it gets another 15 plus his special ability's ~30.  I can almost out-spot Lieutenants in that thing if I'm careful.

It's the vehicles in the middle where you really have to think about it before you decide.  If your base VR is only in the 400-range, both retrofits is only going to get you to ~500 and that's only while stopped.  You'll be able to spot from certain points on some maps, but you'll get out-spotted on other maps because you won't be able to sit in exactly the right spot to use your slight VR advantage.  If you have MBTs in that range - the K1A1 has excellent VR as I recall - then outfitting those probably makes sense.  They'll be on the front line anyway, and have the armor and health to survive being out-spotted occasionally.  Or if you have a vehicle with meh VR but decent camo, that can also be worth outfitting because it helps tilt the VR equation in your favor.

Remember that in PvE visual ranges are effectively halved.  Which means that your margin for error when spotting is also halved.  When you're talking about differences of 50 meters or less, think about how quickly even a tank can cover 50 meters.  Sure, you'll see it first, but if it happens to be driving straight toward you it's going to see you almost immediately also.

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15 hours ago, dfnce said:

 

For Harbinger, in low-mid tiers it is safer to enter city from opposite side.

 

 

so you are saying the route from a 1 to a firing position at b 3 is not optimal for harbinger?   huh.    what is?  is it class dependent?   mid tier, below and including 6?  when I go south  everybody else goes n and e and I get low damage output.  TBH this is a map that I usually avoid so there is that lack of specific knowledge factor again.

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Harbinger is actually a pretty great map once you learn how to play it.  MBTs and snipers can both excel.

From the start, snipers simply turn right and take perches on the hills.  Each hill has its own advantages and disadvantages... I prefer the first hill (red square) for the start of the match, then move to the second one (green square) when my teammates are ready to enter the city.  You can stay on the second hill for the remainder of the game as you have excellent lines of sight to just about all of the action from there.

MBTs with strong turrets have two excellent options at the start.  The first is just across the bridge in the near-right junction of the two roads there.  (Red circle.)  You should be hull down if you're positioned correctly and should be able to see virtually the entire field that the bots spawn in and cross at the start of the game.  This is a great spot if someone else is spotting, but typically isn't close enough to use to spot from.

For that you need the second spot. (Green circle.)  To get there you must cross the N/S road from the bridge and head SE until you're south and slightly west of the farm, hidden behind the farm's dirt road.  You have to move around a bit in this spot because the bots come at you from multiple directions, but once you learn the patterns it's pretty easy to stay hull down and mostly invulnerable for each wave of bots.

Once the field fighting is over, fight your way into the city via the nearest entrance and clear the square.  Once cleared and the next phase begins, there are gaps between the houses in the area of the yellow circle where you can sit and fire into the square as bots appear.  Your sides will be protected, but your front will not be hull down so you sometimes have to play carefully to avoid taking significant damage.  Also beware that bots will enter the square from your south and your north, so you must remain between the houses to be safe.  You can move forward occasionally to find targets in the square, but to do so you'll have to expose your flanks so be prepared to retreat back to the line of houses when necessary.

At the end of the mission there is often 1 bot left somewhere.  The two pink triangles indicate the two most common places to find that last bot.

 

Harbinger.png

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8 hours ago, Baron_Georg said:

so you are saying the route from a 1 to a firing position at b 3 is not optimal for harbinger?   huh.    what is?  is it class dependent?   mid tier, below and including 6?  when I go south  everybody else goes n and e and I get low damage output.  TBH this is a map that I usually avoid so there is that lack of specific knowledge factor again.

Nothing is wrong about locations Knuttliot marked (red and green circles) though such approach was always tier and team dependent. If you roll directly on north field as MBT, you should have capable damage dealers on hill, and your MBT should have enough your own spotting and armor to withstand ATGM spam which seems not to be a case for majority of MBT in game. 

The south entrance is simple, relatively safe and quick entrance to center. 

 

Edited by dfnce (see edit history)

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If you've actually cleared the north fields before you enter the city, which includes waiting for the handful (3-5) of vehicles to exit the city and join the fight in the north fields as well as waiting for the vehicles that spawn in the river west of the town to either a) be destroyed early because you spotted them when they spawned, b) climb up into the north fields to fight, or c) climb up and enter the city then move through it and exit the city to join the fight in the north fields, then it really doesn't matter which route you use to enter the city because there will only be a handful enemies left and none of them have LOS to any of the entrances.  One is usually hiding near-ish the yellow circle on my map, one or two are usually hiding or stuck slightly south but mostly due west of the fountain in the center of the square, and then sometimes there's a third group of one or two in the buildings SSE of the center of the square.

It is very important to not try to enter the city from the north until the last group of enemies (usually 4 of them) spawn along the north edge of the map.  If you move in too soon, those 4 enemies will spawn and attack you from the north right about the same time that the handful of enemies exits the city on the dirt road and you'll be trapped in a cross fire.

Edited by knutliott (see edit history)

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dfnce & knutiott  ok so from the red circle you are telling me that with the right commander and vehicle you can spot all the bots eastward from the top of the map to the area near the east west road?.   because from that position I can't with my current vehicles and commanders.  if the answer is yes then that is much more helpful for me.   can either of you hazard a guess as to why people go en mass the the red circle? please just don't say because they are bad players.  why is this decision unsound because it seems to offer both cover and decent sight lines.  has the changes in bot aggressiveness made the difference?  at what tier and how many matches did it take for you to decide that the red circle is not that great?  if you went that way in an mbt what do you consider adoptable damage to receive.  asking the last question to see if I am in general too afraid of taking damage .   are my ramblings making sense?

 

Oh and one other thing if the questions warrant making a new thread should it be moved?

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12 hours ago, Baron_Georg said:

because from that position I can't with my current vehicles and commanders

You can afford Miramon or Ioannis Sanna early with not so many perks leveled to improve spotting capability.

 

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I really like the commentary here. Perhaps the harbinger discussion is a bit different than the spotting retro discussion.

The issue of timing is one I hadn't consciously thought that much about; the combination of where to be when is very helpful.  I am still struggling to do better on maps like Zero Hour and Raiding Party because there is a lot of driving around, so maybe less room for error if you have a slower tank and want to be in position on time. We get some information about positioning from watching replays, but it's harder to optimize timing by observation.

This is much more productive than the frustration often vented in global chat, where people complain about being teamed with a bunch of noobs that do not understand the map.  Newer players like me are indeed trying (and dying repeatedly) to figure these things out by trial and error... so wisdom from the masters is very welcome.

DVC,

QR

 

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18 hours ago, Baron_Georg said:

dfnce & knutiott  ok so from the red circle you are telling me that with the right commander and vehicle you can spot all the bots eastward from the top of the map to the area near the east west road?.   because from that position I can't with my current vehicles and commanders. 

Well... no, not all of them.  At least not with the kind of vehicle that you'd be willing to risk in the red circle.  That spot is really only "safe" for MBTs because one of the spawns of bots charges straight toward it.  And another spawns close to it but then heads South.  So while you could probably technically spot everything from there in an AS21 with Juan Carlos as your commander, that same AS21 would get overrun by that 4-bot spawn that heads right for it.

There are at least 2 spawns that I can remember off the top of my head that are all the way to the east on that paved North-South road.  (Not the perimeter road, the one that heads South into the city.)  I doubt that you'll be able to spot those spawns from the red circle with an MBT, but maybe with just the right config.

I suspect that people go en masse to that circle because it's really safe in an MBT, and it's far enough to one side that it's even reasonably safe for everyone else.  It's especially safe if you have teammates who are roaming around in the fields attracting attention, which seems to also be pretty common.  It also has really good line of sight to pretty much the entire fight in the north fields, so as long as you can deal with the 4-bot spawn that rushes that position it's an excellent spot until you have to enter the city.

The green circle is also pretty safe, but requires that you be reasonably good yourself and at least have an idea of what the spawn timings are like.  Some of the time you need to be on the north side of that circle in order to have visibility, but at other times you need to be tucked into the safety of the corner on the south side of that circle when bots are rushing toward you from the north.  So you have to move around and react to where the bots are, but it's a really good spot for an MBT once you learn it.  Once the last spawn of 4 bots from the north has been dealth with you can move up onto the road and start working your way south into the city, but be aware that you'll have bots exiting the city toward you for a while so you'll want to be cautious until that has stopped happening.

Really the best option, team-wise, is to have one MBT in the red circle and one in the green circle, and everyone else sniping from the red and green squares along the western hills.

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9 hours ago, dfnce said:

 

You can afford Miramon or Ioannis Sanna early with not so many perks leveled to improve spotting capability.

 

ahhh commander selection the bain of my game existence LOL. definitely have Ioannis who I have never run and Miramon is Carlos his first name?  if it is he is a low time commander for me, one of the Sargent levels I think.  currently I have Freja at Lt, Philip has the xp for Lt but is still promotion locked and Sabrina is at 2 Lt. and currently being run on almost everything to catch up and run to Col first after advice here on the forums.  that's going to be quite a while for me.    Thanks for the info.

Thanks knutliott  as well for your info

 

Edited by Baron_Georg
clarifacation (see edit history)

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5 hours ago, Baron_Georg said:

ahhh commander selection the bain of my game existence LOL. definitely have Ioannis who I have never run and Miramon is Carlos his first name?  if it is he is a low time commander for me, one of the Sargent levels I think.  currently I have Freja at Lt, Philip has the xp for Lt but is still promotion locked and Sabrina is at 2 Lt. and currently being run on almost everything to catch up and run to Col first after advice here on the forums.  that's going to be quite a while for me.    Thanks for the info.

Thanks knutliott  as well for your info

Happy to help when I can!

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On 1/13/2021 at 5:38 PM, Baron_Georg said:

definitely have Ioannis who I have never run ... Sabrina is at 2 Lt. and currently being run on almost everything to catch up and run to Col first after advice here on the forums.  that's going to be quite a while for me.   

 

I have Ioannis up to MSgt and he is a good spotter in AFVs; the bonus is just a few yards, but sometimes that's all the edge you need.  The promotion system beyond LT is going to have me grinding a bunch of secondary people now, too, so will have to move Rashid, Rachel, and Phil up in the next phase.

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