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Alkaline_Stingray

Ideas for low-tier vehicles

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Not too sure if this is where it should go, and not too sure if this is even a good idea since I doubt the devs will see it, but I figured it'd be better if I just threw this out there instead of just keeping it inside my head.

I recently got a friend to come back to AW, and one thing I noticed was that PvE matchmaking at the very low tiers took quite a long time. We were stuck in the queue for roughly three minutes for a hardcore tier 1 match, and it wasn't that much better in standard. I understand that firstly, this might be due to timing or the fact that few people play tier 1 matches nowadays, but I couldn't help but think how this might be quite off-putting to a new player. Either they wait for a long time to get into (if ever) a match, or they might end up being a tier 1 in the midst of a group of tier 3s. The first solution I could think of was to just introduce AI team mates at tiers 1 and 2 for PvE, and that might work as a stopgap measure, but then I thought of something else.

One of the things that drew me to this game back in 2015 was the idea that you could take a tank and slap upgrades on it until it was something decent for it's tier. For example, I was hoping that you could do something like taking a T-55, putting ERA and other upgrades on it and turn it into a T-55MV or even T-55AGM. What I'd like to suggest is the introduction of a similar mechanism. Maybe not as extensive as to feature individual upgrades (eg. FCS, Stabilisers, etc, etc) as that might mess up the tiering system, but something along the lines of allowing a player to 'up-tier' their low-tier vehicles into unique vehicles. 

Using the T-55 as an example, it could be that within the T-55 upgrade tree, there would be a progression-plus upgrade not unlike those found in the tier 10s where you'd be able to unlock a T-55MV kit to move it up into tier 3 or 4, and maybe even have a subsequent upgrade into the T-55AGM to turn it into a tier 6. Similar upgrades can be used for other vehicles:

  1. Leopard 1 (3) - > Leopard C2 MEXAS (5?)
  2. Type 62 (1) -> Type 62G (2? 3?)
  3. PT-85 (1) -> PT-90 (2?) -> Type 63 (2? 3?) -> Type 63A (4?)
  4. M41 (1) -> M41 105 (3?)

And so on and so forth. I think this would not only bring players back into the low-tier pool and give it the boost in population is needs (which would lead to better teams and maybe a better new player experience), but would also make it easier to introduce vehicles that would otherwise be hard to slot into any of the existing tech trees, or are just unique vehicles that would be hard to build a tree around.

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SS mentioned in one of the Q&As that module-based progression wasn't popular, but even so a system like this would smooth out the power differences between tiers. If nothing else, the game would have more variety in vehicles without actually needing to add new vehicles.

Instead of changing the tiers of the vehicles it may be sufficient to merely increase their power level, so that they can adequately compete against higher tiers. To expand on your Leopard 1 example:

  1. Base Leopard 1, relatively high DPM but gets outclassed by tier 4s
  2. Leopard 1 w/ turret armor upgrade and FCS for better gun handling (effectively 1A4 standard), still tier 3 but with a power level of unupgraded tier 4. Change the name to Leopard 1A4 because it's encouraging to have a sense of progression.
  3. Base Leopard 1A5, the runt of tier 5 before upgrades.
  4. Leopard 1A5 with MEXAS and more FCS upgrades, power level of unupgraded tier 6. Change name to Leopard C2 MEXAS.

 

Same concept can be applied to the numerous vehicle series in the game right now. Instead of splitting the T-72/T-80/T-90 series across three different tiers each, they can be consolidated their respective base vehicles with upgrades that raise their power level to the expected tier ranges. T-72 can upgrade itself to 72A/72B/72B3 standard for instance, to cover 4 different power levels.

The downside is that this will reduce the overall number of distinct vehicles in the game, and players might get bored being stuck with the same vehicle for a long time. An expansion system at low tiers would be more ideal to begin with, as you said.

:sealofapproval:

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The reason why I figured that they needed to be up-tiered was because I thought that having something like a, say, Leopard C2 MEXAS at tier 3 where it could potentially face tiers 1 to 2 would be rather unfair to those playing bottom-tier vehicles. Then again, that would likely only apply for PvE, so I guess this would go into the whole discussion as to whether or not there should be a difference between PvE and PvP balancing. I think one compromise would be to just view each tank individually; a Leopard 1A3 or 1A4 would unlikely offer enough of an upgrade over the Leopard 1 to be up-tiered, but a C2 MEXAS might need a little more testing to see how it would actually work in a game. 

Your second point was kind of what I'd like to see in this game, where instead of having variants of the same vehicle being separate and distinct vehicles, you'd instead have the base vehicles in the trees and their variants as upgrade packages. It would, as you say, reduce the number of unique vehicles by quite a bit, and I would even say that you'd have to cut down the number of tiers as well. It could even morph into a Generation 1/2/3/4 sort of system which more-or-less reflects real life classifications. I'd reckon it would also make it easier to introduce tanks as they appear in real-time, since almost all future tanks are lumped into Generation 4 at this point in time.

However, as a starting point, I think this system would be best for tiers 1 to 5. I really only thought hard about this when I realised that having a lack of a players in low-tiers would not bode well for the development of new tech trees.

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During the early days of the game, the tier spread was actually only 1-8 with 9-10 reserved for competitive play only. That is, tier 8 would be the highest tier for everyday play and power levels would only have to stretch across 8 tiers. Some time later when 9-10 got normalized for general play the power levels had to be stretched to accommodate this, that's the reason why there are so many filler vehicles right now. It wouldn't be a bad idea now to cut down on the number of tiers, raising the power levels of the lower tiers to make them more competitive. Hell, just balance tiers 1-2 separately so that the actual game progression starts at tier 3 (while making sure tiers 1-2 never face tier 3 enemies).

Leopard C2 MEXAS would indeed be way too good at tier 3, that's why I thought it would fit better as an upgrade 1A5 at tier 5. Also bear in mind that the increasing power level should also apply to other vehicles as well, so other tiers 3-4 vehicles would effectively have power levels of tiers 4 and 5 respectively. Leopard 1 being a tier 3 with its power level stretching into tier 4 sounds like a reasonable progression.

Although at some point I do wonder if it would be easier to just make a new vehicle for each tier, which is what the game has right now. It feels boring and less engaging though.

 


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Damn, I must not have noticed, or that change must have happened when I took a pretty long hiatus from the game. I started playing back when Obsidian was still in charge, but I think I stopped before the handover to My.com, and came back quite some time afterwards. 

Ah, my bad. I thought you meant to that the C2 MEXAS should be part of progression from the Leopard 1. It'd make more sense if it stemmed from the 1A5. Though I can see how this can get pretty confusing and appear arbitrary; with the case of the T-72, technically you could argue that the T-90 would itself be a variant of the T-72. I'd say that it'd be a good idea if - assuming that there's no change in tier with each upgrade - each tank only increases in power level by 1 or 1.5 tiers. Of course, they could still put in tanks like the T-55AGM which could be a tier 1 to tier 6 jump for those who are super determined to play the T-55.

Although it would be far easier to keep each vehicle in its own tier, I think it'd be more rewarding for players if they could see their vehicle progress. I think being able to see some form of progression on the vehicle you're using would make the grind seem a lot less, well, grindy. Also, I feel that at some point, they're going to run out of vehicles for the low tiers since most vehicles nowadays stem from the same few tanks. 

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the Mexas C2 basicly is a upgraded L1a5 with better optics and improved ammunition and other technology features as well . the ammunition for the tier 5 leo seems a bit weak concidering how the regular tier 3 leo 1 hits  , i think it would be more like a tier 6 or maybe..... a tier 7 at best . perhaps give it better ammo [ more pen and damage ] , slight increase in vision range , better acceleration concidering its lighter armour component. I still would like to see it in the game . As one of the last greatest versions of the leo 1 class.

Edited by Arcticwolfbz (see edit history)

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