Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Haswell

0.33 PTS - Round 2

Recommended Posts

https://aw.my.games/en/news/general/033-pts-stage-2-now-available

Quote

The Update 0.33 Stage 2 version is now available on the Public Test Server. This build includes the changes that we mentioned in our recent feedback article.

 

The main features of Update 0.33 “Spirithaven” include:

  • Tier 7-10 Rebalance
  • Mobility overhaul
  • New contract with 2T Stalker
  • Visual model fixes
  • Lots of shader and other optimizations that should significantly improve the game’s performance

You can read more about the main features in a dedicated article. For more details, please check the patchnotes below.

 

Testing Details

 

The PTS is only available:

  • September 3: until 21:00 CEST
  • September 4: 18:00 to 22:00 CEST
  • September 5: 18:00 to 22:00 CEST
  • September 6: 18:00 to 22:00 CEST

We't like to remind you that during the testing phase of Update 0.33, you can receive the following rewards:

  • Win 12 PvE missions on the PTS server to receive 5 Platinum boosters and 5.000 Battle Coins
  • Win 12 PvP matches on the PTS server to receive 5 Platinum boosters and 5.000 Battle Coins

Please note that the players who already received this reward during Stage 1 will not receive it again. However, we have prepared an additional reward for Stage 2:

  • Win 24 PvE missions on the PTS server to receive 2.000 Battle Coins for the next Battle Path (coming later this year)
  • Win 24 PvP (Random Battles and GLOPS) matches on the PTS server to receive 2.000 Battle Coins for the next Battle Path (coming later this year)

These rewards will be sent after the end of the 0.33 PTS phase.

List of currently known issues:

  • The following vehicles are not ready for testing in PTS Stage 2: M60-2000, BM Oplot, PTL-02 (please do not submit any feedback regarding them)

 

More stuff, this time in spoilers

Round 1 > round 2 changes (not comprehensive)

Spoiler
Stage 1 to Stage 2 List of Changes

 

Another whole bunch of rebalances and armor fixes for Tier 7 to Tier 10 vehicles (this isn’t the final version yet though, don’t panic!)

Generally, here’s what we did:

  • Rebalanced armor, DPM, penetrations, mobility etc. of all Tier 7-10 vehicles (excluding those listed as “not read”, see below for the list of issues)
  • Changed the ATGM damage mechanics to deal a lot less minimum damage to thick armor but roughly the same maximum damage
  • Significantly increased the camouflage penalty for launching ATGMs
  • Adjusted the damage and penetration values for HEAT and HEAT-MP shells
  • Increased HESH damage
  • Somewhat reduced MBT DPM
  • Somewhat reduced light vehicle camouflage
  • Fixed a significant number of issues where, using the new mobility system, the actual mobility values of vehicles differed from those listed in the UI

Other Changes

  • Changed the characteristics of multiple ATGMs (they now accelerate and maneuver better right after their launch)
  • Fixed the tank Active Abilities
  • Fixed some strange vehicle sliding and getting stuck on bridges
  • Fixed an issue where some vehicles (specifically the Kornet-EM) would fire without having their launchers ready
  • Additional small Leopard 2 and Leopard 2AV model improvements
  • In this update, we have optimized and overhauled the appearance of the following elements: your and enemy team tables, battle launch countdown timer and in-game chat
  • Port Storm: Fixed this map’s lighting so that the reflections on tank surfaces appear correctly
  • Kornet-EM: Fixed an issue where this vehicle’s launchers could move up and down even when destroyer
  • M48 GAU-8: Fixed an issue where this vehicle’s firing sound was too quiet if you encountered it as an enemy
  • SBS Pindad: Fixed this vehicle’s destruction effect
  • T-72B: Model height somewhat increased
  • American Dream, Chapter 2: Fixed an issue that caused some enemy targets during the train escape phase to become inaccessible
  • Moscow Calling, Chapter 1: Fixed an issue that caused Magnus’ tank to get stuck in a tunnel
  • Spirithaven, Chapter 4: Fixed this map’s lighting on low details
  • Chemical Plant: Fixed the train model appearance
  • Frostbite: Fixed various objects flying in the air
  • Spearhead: Fixed various objects flying in the air
  • PvP map loading screens now show the positions of bases
  • Fixed an issue with wheeled vehicle steering
  • Fixed an issue where your vehicle became stuck when entering bodies of water
  • Fixed an issue where it was possible to deploy infantry under water
  • Fixed an issue where AMX-13 DCA’s radar model wouldn’t fold properly when deactivated
  • Fixed an issue that caused the “no damage” message to appear when firing HE shells
  • Fixed an issue with Mechanized Infantry walking animation

 

Preliminary patch notes:

Spoiler
Gameplay Mechanisms

 

Tier 7-10 Rebalance

The previously announced Tier 7-10 rebalance is here. We've significantly changed the parameters of all vehicles on these Tiers in order to reduce power creep and significantly improve high-Tier gameplay. As this is a very complex topic with pretty much everything changing, we will not be posting every single update to vehicle characteristics. Instead, you can read about the rationale behind these changes in our four-part series of articles:

In general, this includes:

  • General rebalance of armor values for all MBTs on these Tiers along with numerous bug fixes
  • General rebalance of shell penetration values for all vehicles on these Tiers
  • Significantly reduced the Smoke Grenade and Smokescreen cooldowns
  • MBTs now have more smoke charges than the other classes
  • Mobility improvements (described below)

Shell Changes

In connection with the abovementioned Tier 7-10 rebalance, we are also changing some shell mechanics to better fit the new system:

  • HEAT shells lose their thin armor penetration damage bonus, their basic damage value is increased to compensate for this change (the bonus did not work correctly and led so some incorrect damage values)
  • HEAT and HEAT-MP shells of the same caliber now deal different damage (HEAT-MP shells do slightly less to compensate for the fact they retain their HE component)
  • Kinetic shells now lose more penetration with distance (HEAT shells do not lose any whatsoever) – this change was made in order to make penetration loss a thing since the effect it had on gameplay was negligible and to implement the intended MBT gameplay, described in our dedicated article
  • ATGMs in general now deal damage even upon non-penetration – after all, an ATGM is typically a huge flying explosive warhead that does tons of damage even upon non-penetration and given how many obstacles it has to overcome (low flight velocity, APS, ERA, composite armor), there has to be at least some reward for the trouble
  • ATGMs in general now accelerate and maneuver better right after launch
  • We also reviewed a number of flight characteristics of all ATGMs because, in some cases, they were incapable of flying at their maximum speed due to incorrect settings
  • HESH shells now have significantly higher penetration but also lower damage

Explosive Reactive Armor Rebalance

We are adjusting the way the Explosive Reactive Armor mechanics work. In short, ERA will reduce the penetration of incoming shells instead of "eating them up" outright and will be made more durable and resistant to machinegun fire. Additionally, ERA kits are now split into four generations, each with different performance. You can read more about this change in our dedicated article.

Mobility Changes

We are changing a number of vehicle motion principles and parameters in order to make the machines of Armored Warfare easier to control. This includes:

  • Changed the characteristics of vehicle collision models
  • Changed the way suspensions work in order to bring them closer to their real life counterparts (this influences how the vehicle interacts with smaller obstacles or its steering and breaking behavior)
  • Changed the way steering works in order to make it more controllable and predictable
  • Reviewed the behavior of each class in motion (the MBTs now lose less speed in moderately sharp turns)
  • Maximum speed is now a more usable parameter since the vehicles can reach it more often

Overall, this is a boost to the mobility of all classes. The turning radius now corresponds more to what you'd expect and depends on how much you "step on the gas."

New Contract Campaign

A new Contract Mission campaign awaits you in Update 0.33 with similar mechanics to those used during the last one. This time, you'll be able to unlock the 2T Stalker Tier 8 Premium AFV with its excellent mobility and firepower. You can read more about the Stalker in our dedicated article, although please note that for the release version, we've decided to go with the single launcher version.

Optimizations

In this update, we are rolling out a set of many minor performance improvements. While each of them is a small change on its own, together, they should help to make the game run smoother. These include:

  • Improved shader cache stability and performance
  • Improved performance of static map object rendering
  • Improved performance of glowing map object rendering
  • Improved performance of long-distance vehicle rendering on maximum settings
  • Improved performance of lighting for street lamps, headlights, lanterns, fires and other similar objects
  • Improved performance of various visual and sound special effects of shell impacts
  • Improved CPU resource management
  • Object clipping fixes
  • Long distance object lighting optimization on high settings
  • Reviewed the user texture settings
  • Optimized chromatic aberration effect

Furthermore, we fixed an issue that caused some freezes and stuttering in battles. This fix is listed in the Issues and Corrections section.

Camouflage Settings

In Update 0.33, you will have the option to disable your own camouflage for your client in the game's Settings tab. To you, your tank will appear without a skin or camouflage. To the other players, it will appear as if it has a skin or camouflage unlocked. Please note, however, that old vehicles with fixed camouflage (commonly referred to as "reskins") will not be affected by this setting.

General Changes

  • Overhauled the sounds of armor-piercing shells
  • Overhauled the sounds of shells flying into the ground
  • Added a new sound to when you switch to a secondary weapon system
  • The Steel Wings epic medal (requiring you to win a Random Battle without losses or win a Global Operations match losing 300 points or less) is no longer awarded if the battle fails to launch due to server error
  • Changed the countdown sound at the beginning of each battle
  • Changed the ammunition switching sound
  • Reduced the volume of the machinegun firing sound

 

Vehicles

 

T-72B New Model

The T-72B Tier 6 Main Battle Tank has a brand-new model in order to address the serious inaccuracies of the previous one. The new model was made in high quality and from scratch. To learn more about it, please read our dedicated article.

Model Updates

Apart from the abovementioned T-72B MBT, will are changing and correcting a large number of issues of older models in order to improve their visual quality and to make them correspond to real life. These changes include:

  • Leopard improvements (including the suspension offset, higher texture resolutions, details and the correct 130mm L/51 model for Leopard 2AX)
  • Challenger 2 improvements (overhauled the TES kit appearance)
  • Vickers Mk.7/2 now has a correct gun model
  • Bradley Fighting Vehicle now has a correct gun model (and a new name, it's no longer M2A3 Bradley)
  • M48A3 was renamed to M48 in order to correspond to its visual model

Along with a number of other improvements. You can read more about these updates in our dedicated article. Please note that the long-awaited Abrams overhaul will come at a later date during the course of Update 0.33.

More Vehicle MGs

We are adding machineguns to the following vehicles:

  • 2S14 Zhalo-S
  • 2S1 Gvozdika
  • 2S3 Akatsiya
  • CATTB
  • EE-18 Sucuri II
  • FV433 Abbot VE
  • FV433 Abbot
  • Leopard 2AX
  • M108
  • M109
  • MBT-70
  • OA-82 Jarmila II
  • Palmaria
  • PLZ-05
  • PLZ-89
  • Panzerhaubitze 2000
  • Sho't Kal Dalet
  • Taifun II
  • WWO Wilk
  • Wilk XC-8
  • WZ-1224
  • ZBD-86

We are aware that on some of these vehicles (OA-82), the machineguns (while present) do not serve as actual machineguns, but as ranging guns. Their conversion to normal MG status is a necessary gamification on our part for the sake of game balance.

General Changes

  • Overhauled the reloading mechanism animations for the vehicles that have them. For you, not much should change visually but the system now works smoother, is more stable and the animation time now corresponds to the intended reload time listed in the UI
  • BMPT Mod.2000 and Bradley FV now have ATGM reloading animations
  • Improved the muzzle flash visual effect
  • Removed the fuel tank module from all vehicles due to them generally being pointless in the game. Yes, they can burn, but there are two additional fire sources in each tank, engine and ammunition and having three of them, especially on more fragile vehicles, is too much
  • Multiple vehicles had their UI hull traverse rate values recalculated to the correct ones
  • Fixed the appearance of multiple skins such as T-80U Shark, Centauro 120 Wolf
  • Removed the visual effect where the turret actually flies off or burns from below from the vehicles that either don't have a turret or don't have ammunition stored below it
  • Various grilles and meshes (such as those on engine decks) no longer get covered by camouflage
  • Fixed a large number of small visual issues on multiple models (small texture adjustments etc.)

BMPT Mod.2000

  • Fixed the armor description of this vehicle

Kornet-EM

  • The vehicle's status panel now correctly displays the ammunition count when firing with a single launcher
  • Destroying the launcher will stop this vehicle's reloading period and will prevent new missiles from being loaded
  • Fixed the reloading animation sound
  • Fixed an issue where this vehicle’s launchers could move up and down even when destroyer

Leopard 2 Evolution

  • Fixed this vehicle's frontal collision model

Leopard 2 Revolution

  • Fixed this vehicle's frontal collision model

Object 490

  • Added extra track marks on the ground for the frontal half of the suspension

SBS Pindad

  • Fixed this vehicle’s destruction effect

SPHINX

  • Fixed an issue with ATGM launches for this vehicle

Stryker ADATS

  • The flagpoles are now correctly placed on this vehicle
  • Fixed an issue where this vehicle incorrectly had ERA mentioned in its armor description

Wiesel HOT

  • Fixed an issue where the ATGM would not launch from the vehicle's launcher model

 

Player versus Player

 

  • Fixed an issue where bodies of water would disappear on some maps (notably Ghost Field and Waterway)
  • Chemical Plant: Fixed the train model appearance
  • Port Storm: Fixed this map’s lighting so that the reflections on tank surfaces appear correctly
  • Fixed a number of smaller map issues

 

Player versus Environment

 

AI ATGM Aiming Changes

We changed the way the AI opponents (bots) launch ATGMs at player vehicles. Earlier, AI vehicles could launch ATGMs in 180 degrees range from the axis of their turrets, leading to some strange cases where even players who are standing almost next to the AI vehicles would get hit. In Update 0.33, AI vehicles only launch ATGMs in 30 degrees range from the axis of their turrets and therefore have to actually take aim properly before firing.

General Changes

  • AI MBTs no longer use gun-launched ATGMs
  • Black Sea Incursion, Chapter 3: Fixed the Radar hitpoint bar and icon overlap
  • American Dream, Chapter 2: Fixed an issue that caused some enemy targets during the train escape phase to become inaccessible
  • Moscow Calling, Chapter 1: Fixed an issue that caused Magnus’ tank to get stuck in a tunnel
  • Arabian Nights, Chapter 3: Removed the Dune Worm Easter egg
  • Spirithaven, Chapter 3: Fixed an issue where players could bypass the closed gate in the F4 sector
  • Spirithaven, Chapter 4: Fixed an issue where the AI opponents would drive to inaccessible areas and then fire at players through walls
  • Spirithaven, Chapter 4: Fixed an issue where Magnus' vehicle could fall down from the platform
  • Spirithaven, Chapter 4: Fixed this map’s lighting on low details
  • Frostbite: Fixed various objects flying in the air
  • Spearhead: Fixed various objects flying in the air
  • Watchdog: Fixed the collision model of the destroyed bridge that caused some players to get stuck on it
  • Fixed a number of smaller map issues

 

User Interface

 

Player Avatar Improvements

Player avatars and titles are now more prominent, appearing for example in your Friend list or, more importantly, on loading screens. This will become noticeable especially in PvE where you'll be able to show your vintage event avatar to everyone who's getting in battle with you. Additionally, your avatar and title will also appear in the Battalion member list. Now you can brag about your rare title or avatar to the rest of your Battalion.

Battle UI Improvements

In this update, we have optimized and overhauled the appearance of the following elements:

  • Your and enemy team tables
  • Battle launch countdown timer
  • In-game chat

General Changes

  • On the Armor Inspector screen, you can now move your camera further below in order to better inspect the bottom of each tank
  • When selling items in your Inventory, you can now choose how many to sell
  • Your Friend List button now shows the amount of your friends currently online
  • PvP map loading screens now show the positions of bases
  • Improved the appearance of Outgoing Damage numbers and added the option to change their appearance point, added new colors based on the identity of the damage dealer
  • Added the option to disable Blocked Damage in the Outgoing Damage and Incoming Damage tabs
  • The game UI now features the status of your Mechanized Infantry (how many the vehicle carries, how many are deployed and how many are dead)
  • Updated the AP shell tooltip to show its penetration loss over distance better
  • In order to make the UI more comprehensible, shell tooltips no longer display the damage range. Instead, they show the average shell damage with a new characteristics, randomization, showed below
  • Updated the armor tooltip to better show the new armor parameters and ERA generations better
  • Vehicle Encyclopedia in the game now has an "Additional Progression" filter option
  • The main results panel for the Global Operations mode now shows the amount of objective capture points instead of the amount of spotted enemies
  • Improved the appearance of vehicle markers
  • When right-clicking a player in your Garage, the Dossier button is now on top of the menu
  • The maximum speed value is now rounded to whole numbers
  • Fixed the Upgrade UI (the positioning of some modules) for multiple vehicles
  • Introduced multiple User Interface optimizations

 

Issues and Corrections

 

  • Fixed an issue that caused various freezes and stuttering when executing some visual effects (vehicle explosions and such)
  • Fixed an issue with the spotting system that caused some vehicles to become spotted incorrectly
  • Fixed an issue where it was possible to deploy infantry under water
  • Fixed an issue where AMX-13 DCA’s radar model wouldn’t fold properly when deactivated
  • Fixed an issue that caused the “no damage” message to appear when firing HE shells
  • Fixed an issue with wheeled vehicle steering
  • Fixed an issue with Mechanized Infantry walking animation
  • Fixed some issues with Retrofit number rounding (for example, instead of showing 13 percent increase, the rate of fire Retrofit now shows 12.5 percent since that has always been the actual value, only the UI number was incorrectly rounded up)
  • Fixed an issue where activating Supercharged Soft-Kill APS would not affect incoming Javelin ATGMs
  • Fixed an issue where enemy AI vehicles would not appear on the minimap after starting to capture an objective
  • Fixed an issue where your Effective Combat Time value in your Dossier would always be listed as 0
  • Fixed an issue where, in a Custom Match, the Observer would not see vehicle markers correctly
  • Fixed an issue where, upon installing a skin, the name and icon of your vehicle would not change immediately
  • Fixed an issue with the rotary cannon fire that appearing on the Alabino map
  • The "Eyes" decal now mirrors properly
  • Fixed a number of issues that could cause the game to crash

 


Spoiler

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me this is the biggest issue

 

-HEAT shells lose their thin armor penetration damage bonus

that was such a good mechanic, especially in PvE, it rewarded good aim and ammo selection, now its just "more damage".

I really dont get why that was changed....

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There was a power creep, yes. It needed to be addressed, yes. But I am not sure if 0.33 actually achieved that. From what I see and hear, it seems that the gameplay will be numbed down. Good for new players into the game but not so much for experienced players. So looking at what the actual issue was, "we" haven't achieved much. Looking forward, when 0.33 is going to be implemented, what will that do to the player base?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since this is the first weekend I've had off off and the PTS was active, I gave it a swing to see what is going on.

 

  • Optimization:
    • The optimization to improve the game performance really didn't help any.  In some cases it slowed me down.  They did change the team members tab in the upper left of the screen.  It lead me to wonder why are there so many different fonts on the screen.
    • Lot of graphical glitches that were introduced such as the T-15 has 2 streams of autocannon fire coming off of it instead of the one.  A lot of the damage notifications don't show up when you  are in sniper view mode and when you cycle back out to the arcade mode there is a huge delay in when they will appear.

 

Tried out a few of my favorite tanks to see how they changed since they are known constants to me.

  • There are several tanks such as the K2, Altay, and Type 10 that lack their special ability to drop the hull which is part of the protection dynamics to hide the LFP.  The ability to drop the hull is not available.  Actually, active abilities for everything is disabled.....
  • The ability to swap ammo for things that have a ready rack/magazine/clip/whateveryoucallit such as the Altay and K2 are now instant.  The only tank that had that before was the Type 10 and it had to be done from a full rack.  Now it doesn't care if there is a full rack or 1 round left.  That is something that needs to be fixed.  it should be a full rack if they want to implement it on other tanks and even then there should be a time delay in it as a penalty.  I think in the K2 I was actually able to beat the actual reload by how I cycled from HEAT to AP.  I'd have to actively try again to see if it is true which if it is so then the entire mechanic is broken.  The insta-swap also works on the 2AX for some reason.
  • I do like the penetration drop off on the MBT's.  Not being able to snipe an MBT in an MBT from across the runway on Albatross is a good change.  I'm sure that there is some sort of negative to this I haven't experienced yet.
  • The introduction of HEAT to the 2AX was a nice addition.
  • Still a lot of pixel hunting going on.
  • The vision changes not so much.  Things are disappearing right in front of you now (T14 on the move at 250 meters).  I guess it goes back to how the vision range scales depending on the map and that should be addressed so a set spotting range is a set spotting range regardless of the map now that they are dialing the MBT's spotting range back.

 

My initial opinion is that this is not going to address the actual issues.

Edited by Katsumoto (see edit history)

 

"If you were not birthed with claws or fangs, store bought will do just fine."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Katsumoto said:

Since this is the first weekend I've had off off and the PTS was active, I gave it a swing to see what is going on.

 

Thanks to everyone helping identify issues with the PTS. I downloaded client but unfortunately am working during PTS hours thanks to the reschedule of stage 2.

The number of unresolved / partially resolved issues makes me wonder if we should have a PTS stage 3??

I sense the development team is in a tough spot - not really enough time to flesh out details before build is pushed out to PTS, and at same time committed to a final release date. The squeeze must feel like the trash compactor aboard the Death Star.

QR

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Quantum_Ranger said:

Thanks to everyone helping identify issues with the PTS. I downloaded client but unfortunately am working during PTS hours thanks to the reschedule of stage 2.

The number of unresolved / partially resolved issues makes me wonder if we should have a PTS stage 3??

I sense the development team is in a tough spot - not really enough time to flesh out details before build is pushed out to PTS, and at same time committed to a final release date. The squeeze must feel like the trash compactor aboard the Death Star.

QR

 

 

I wish that they would tweak one thing at a time, dialed it in, then moved to the next thing.  The optimizations in my opinion while needed are not necessary at this time.  If they want to do a balance change, do a balance change.  if they want to do a game optimization pass, do that.  Trying to combine the two makes for a bad mix of issues to sort out.

In the grand scheme of things, I do like the change to the ammo mechanics but i don't feel it'll fix the overall issue.


 

"If you were not birthed with claws or fangs, store bought will do just fine."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, from 0.32 pts.

Changes to APS (some have made it)
More APS charges for PVE
Bots tend to still face ass first.
More AI pool.
More control over your UI (the yellow to white thing is really annoying now)

Personal changes

More PVE content, such as maps.
Old capture the flag mode (hopefully Christmas brings this back)

Better tool tips (some have made it into 0.33)
More sounds for engines and guns.
Reduced 30s timer to 20s if everyone is loaded in.
World of warships information map settings.
Like Your view range, max view range, Proxy view range, APS range. All can be toggled in UI and changed colour if optional.
And other idea's I've yet to throw in.

The armour reworks.

Not a fan but they're unlikely to change now, APS and soft kill havent had much changes, with rapid firing tanks now.
It's possible we'll have maps that require 100k damage done to bots just to survive.

I understand tanks fight close, but armour is thin on most tanks, some mbts don't need a full hammer nerf. 
If a tank is doing too well, nerf it over time. CATTB is still strong because it's good vs AP.

Chally lost that important side armour people are used too.

Quick swap skill increases mbt dpm by way too much.
Auto cannons are very important, changing mbts front and side armour can really effect any gamemode.

Heavier cannons get better pen and alpha. ROF should fit to how good or bad the tank performs. 
Smaller cannons need more module damage to make up for their lack of both, while loosing less from the fast firing gun.
There's so much to take in with all the changes.
Not set in stone so I wont continue until we have live changes.

Troops

Troops: still a mixed back since we can't move them to location. 

Dev take note: One idea is to hold down E at set location with your mouse and the troops will mark a red X where they will run to.
Possible issues: if the player dies, leave the Squad to it's normal AI location picking.
Must require some LOS towards enemy players/bots. Like avoiding walls near by if it can't find that target if it's within range.

It may take longer for a player to move off from location, but this will help with ambushes.

Chip damage

I still believe this is going to hurt a lot more like 0.20-0.23 where module damage was to strong.
Even with damage rolls at below 100, they're still ATGMS. Bot will continually fire, no MBT will outlive the constant bot spam.
PVP may reward this, but pve? you can have 200k of HP bots fighting a team that's not able to keep up.
It's reached a point where Heroics is easier the spec ops.

I would rather have my roof and gun modules knocked out then take damage.

HEAT MP VS HEAT / TANDEM (atgms also)

HEATMP really got slapped, we're all to used to it. 
again, less big numbers for a HE splat. Does it make it less rewarding? Yes.

That's not the full case, if it does pen, it should do FAR more damage to modules inside with the cone, unlike the HEAT tandem.

TANDEM have seen consistent numbers while doing far more pain to point of impact.

There will always be a trade off, since the new ERA system. Results will be, different.

If the rounds suck, they'll deal with it. It takes time to processes how good or poorly a tank is doing. Rather then yelling: lol the heat succs.

What can we take out of this? 
Without changes, ones we may like or not, they're still moving ahead, our games are likely to changes since most of us sit at tier 8-10.
Does this fix the creep?
Not by much, some tanks are worse off, but... not set in stone. 


achievement.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Once again, I've created a document outlining my observations, thoughts, and suggestions regarding the PTS over the last several days. I won't delve too deep into specifics in this post, but to sum up my findings, many improvements and amelioration have been implemented/applied, but many crucial and/or fundamental issues/concerns have yet to be properly addressed. 

That being said, I'm still hoping our community can come together to compile a comprehensive list of PTS bugs/issues/concerns. I have disabled editing this time around since my formatting is more organized and categorized, so please provide your PTS stage 2 feedback through comments. I will add to/edit my existing material based on valid/constructive community comments and input. Similarily, please take some of my points with a grain of salt, as many of them are ultimately subjective. If anyone disagrees with anything listed in the document, I'd be more than willing to discuss/debate my perspective(s) either in the comments or on this thread. I look forward to everyone's opinion(s), explanation(s), and solution(s) (whatever is applicable). As previously mentioned, I intend to forward this feedback to the AW team.

As mentioned in the document, I am also working on proposed changes to the armor layouts of numerous vehicles in 0.33. This is to address the lack of diverse and interesting armor profiles/models for different vehicles/lines. I may consider making a follow up post or even a new topic altogether with visual examples/concepts, should our community be interested.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My primary worst impression from upcoming 0.33 changes - overall simplification of frontal armor layout of all MBT. Every model gets more or less same green LFP which makes the game much less interesting. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, dfnce said:

My primary worst impression from upcoming 0.33 changes - overall simplification of frontal armor layout of all MBT. Every model gets more or less same green LFP which makes the game much less interesting. 

In the AW 0.33-answers-feedback, the devs wrote:

MBT frontal armor layout is now the same for pretty much all MBTs

This is still work in progress, it’ll get more diverse. It is not our intention to homogenize this aspect. Unfortunately, we didn’t have time to introduce all the changes we’d like to have during the first stage of the testing. During the second stage of testing, you will see more changes although we’ll continue to tweak this aspect through the weeks following the launch of Update 0.33.

The main point is that this feature was incomplete during Stage 1 and we apologize for giving you the wrong impression.

Was the armor layout any better in PTS stage 2? Or are we pretty much relying on ATGM chip damage for killing MBTs at launch time?

QR

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here we go again...

General Feedback

The Rock VS Everthing

In general, I believe this update messed up more the general Rock Paper Scissors meta despite the intention to restore it.

MBTs = the Jack of All Trades, Master of Everything:

  • Firepower: Have the best gun of their tier, with High Penetration, High Alpha and increased DPM (regardless of the nerf from PTS 1 - they are still increased compared to live server)
  • Armor: Changes to Armor means their weakspot became much easier to hide - Most MBT’s weakness is usually their LFP, many more funky weakspot like turret rings are not longer penetrable even with the best APFSDS.
  • Mobility: They don’t feel slow at all - in fact tanks like the ATDU of all things have top-notch 0-Max speed time at ~20 odd seconds which is absurd.
  • View Range is right about the only weakness of this class yet they always fight in close range anyway in the first place, mitigating this weakness for the most part

LTs / Wheeled vehicles = The “worse” MBT

  • Firepower: They lost ~5% DPM for basically no compensation. Why? They guns are usually worse than that of the MBTs of the same tier, and their main selling point *is* that DPM. With the increase of MBT DPM, its compounding on the shrinking gap between MBT and LT DPM. Considering the lack of armor of these tanks, I don’t see the rationale behind this change, on top of the mobility nerf it received.
  • Armor: They never had any armor to speak of for the most part. PL-01 also is much less resistant to HEAT now, for some peculiar reason.
  • Mobility: This is the big one. 
    • In general, most wheeled TDs and LTs feel much slower than they are compared to live server.
    • LTs seem to handle just as sluggish as the MBTs, while acceleration to max-speed felt inadequate considering how fast some of the MBTs can be now (looking at you, T-14).
    • Turning radius also is not where I would expect agile wheeled vehicles or LTs to be.
    • Wheeled vehicles have horrible acceleration to their max speed despite their theoretical top speed; They never even get close to that even on hard terrain. This isn’t a realistic game and I thought the nerf to their mobility (Vehicles like the SPHINX and the Korent-EM) feels superficial and unnecessary. They just feel extremely unnatural to control compared to live because it feels so much slower and clunky.
  • Having (finally) the disparity in view range is very nice, but I don’t think its enough to justify playing this class over other tanks (especially MBTs).

ATGM chip damage

  • I am sure this has been stated many many times, but I genuinely think this is a toxic mechanic for PvE. T-15 and Bradleys dish out so many missiles in short succession that chipping damage alone can deal a lot of damage to you. despite using your armor correctly.
  • Yes - I know that in PTS stage 2, ATGM are not supposed to do much chipping damage to heavily armored parts anymore, but this feels extremely inconsistent. I regularly still take 200-400 damage when T-15s/Bradleys shoot at my thickest frontal armor. You take cumulatively so much more unnecessary damage that you have to rebuild kit much more frequently in many games.
  • ATGMs already have a global increase to their penetration for the most part. I don’t see why there is a need to give them even more power.
  • It's not a fun mechanic and I strongly urge it to be scrapped.

Removal of HEAT / ATGM’s Damage bonus

  • I understand the intention here is to lessen the RNG of HEAT (and ATGMs) in general, but the consequence of that is the loss of that High-risk, High reward mechanic, and the differentiation of a good player firing at weakspot vs a less-skilled player auto-aiming their missiles. 
  • Now, firing at weak engine decks, or parts without ERA protections are meaningless as they won’t award you extra damage for the extra effort you put in to aim those missiles.

Reworked Armor felt bland

  • MBT’s armor in general now feels extremely bland and uninteresting. For the most part, just shoot APFSDS at the lower plate of any MBT and you’ll penetrate it.
  • Previously, there are some fun little quirks to many tanks’ armor that you can fire a variety of rounds to your own risk. There are tiny weakspots on tanks that HEAT can penetrate and subsequently do more damage than APFSDS (e.g. Turing ring of XM1A3, Driver’s hatch on the T-14) - but the tradeoff is that you do no damage at all. That is now completely gone.
  • It discourages ammo diversity and in general makes each engagement uninspiring, as the best tactic for the most part now is to face hug each other so that the enemy cannot shoot at your lower plate. It makes tanks like the XM1A3 incredibly strong because of the removal of most of its weakspot.

Tank-Specific Feedback

SPHINX

  • Its missile is way too weak compare to the CRAB (which is a Tier 9), which now has better per-missile reload AND 2 more missile to play with

    • 14 second Missile reload and increased intra-missile reload, and very low Alpha damage for ATGM at 750 makes is way too weak for Tier 10 standards

    • Camo-rating falls to near-Zero when firing a missile, pushing it towards a pure scout.

  • Autocannon upgrade is inadequate to make up the difference between the missiles

  • It feels like a downgrade compare to the CRAB

Suggestion: 

Swap its positioning with the Shadow, which makes more sense to be positioned as a pure scout, and instead make the SPHINX the AFV/TD hybrid (according to the graph in the portal article)

Z4CKYZC.jpg

Give (partially) some of its ATGM power back by either decreasing the reload time on the missiles or increasing the damage of the missiles.

 

Challenger 2 ATDU

  • As of right now, it is a kind of MBT Wilk kind of PISH spamming TD rather than the heavily armored MBT that they should be as outlined.

  • The frontal LFP weakspot remain enlarged compare to live for no apparent reason - It was always supposed to be hard to deal with at the front - its now much less consistent in doing the tanking (and possibly affecting how it reacts to ATGM chipping damage too). AZqQYl2.png

  • Its side Dorchester blocks are completely destroyed, becoming basic spaced armor. I cannot agree with this change on top of the LFP nerf. Its effectiveness against HEAT are a little bit worse than it is on live (~1000mm effective - a lot of Tier 10 ATG can, and will chew through that), while completely useless against any kind of kinetic rounds (~350mm effective when you don't angle it, and ~600mm with a heavy angle, WTF is this "Dorchester block"?).b1dJfpH.png

  • Don’t understand why the insistence of making the ATDU less armored considering it is contradictory to what its positioning in the rebalance. I strongly urge the developers to either give it back the composite armor blocks, or at the very least make it some kind of NERA blocks.

  • It’s absurdly fast and agile for a supposedly heavily armored tank.

Suggestion:

Option 1 - The Solo Warrior: Retain the current frontal armor profile, but give it back the Dorchester armor blocks on the side. This would make over-angling the tank possible again to compensate for the LFP nerf. Keep the mobility as is in order to allow it to adjust its angling quickly in accordance to the engagement, making it a very tough lone warrior that can hold the line for extended periods of time while being not completely unkillable from the front.

Option 2 - The Doom Turtle: Give its Live server frontal armor profile back, but keep the side armor as of PTS Stage 2 to allow for easy flanking. Adjust its mobility downwards in order to make this a frontline doom turtle that would tank extremely well, but prone to flanking and thus require ally support.

 

Abrams Family

  • Contrary to the complete disaster that it is in PTS stage 1, in PTS stage 2 the entire Abrams family has now become the “new” doom turtle with only a small weakspot while the entire front is basically impenetrable.ZcGHIvi.jpg

  • Take the XM1A3 as an example: As of PTS stage 2, there is only a tiny strip of “Lower” LFP that is penetrable by even the DM23 (900mm APFSDS penetration). This is way too overboard now even compared to even the Obj 490 and ATDU.

  • Considering its extremely powerful ERA on the sides that protect against both APFSDS and HEAT ammo, on top of the removal of turret ring weakspot, it is extremely tough to kill one in any angle bar its back.

Suggestion: 

Give the Abrams its turret ring weakness back in a similar fashion to the Lepoard 2AX - instead of the entire turret ring, the section under the cannon would become the weakspot.

5iHvLN1.jpg

This makes sure that it is not completely invulnerable when face-hugging, while not being as obnoxious to hide (point your cannon downwards to cover it up) as it is on live server.

T-72. T-80, T-90, Object 640 and other T-series derivatives (Excluding T-14 family)

  • As of right now, many T-series tank already have a relatively small LFP portion compared to Western tanks (like the Abrams or the Lelclerc); With the new changes It has the Abrams armor problem but even more pronounced across the whole line.

  • Right now on PTS, that tiny strip of LFP is further divided into a upper portion that is almost as strong as the UFP and a very very tiny strip that serves as a weakspot in the “lower” LFP. This makes them extremely powerful against even higher tier vehicles because its very difficult to hit it even at sub-100m range.

  • Those “Lower” LFP weakspot are still extremely strong, and especially to HEAT rounds. The T90MS as of right now is resistant up to ~1200mm penetration ATGMs, which is absolutely ridiculous and is superior to the T-14 in terms of armor, which is absurd.

Suggestion: 

Weaken the LFP to make it at least penetrable to top ATGMs of its tier, and APFSDS should have no issues going through it. T-series LFP (except the T-14 family) are already very small to begin with.

K2 and Type 10

K2

  • Is effectively the new Type 10

  • Insane burst damage (2K-3K damage within 4 seconds) potential while retaining above average DPM

  • Resistant to APFSDS from the front (abeit not as good against HEAT)

Type 10

  • Seems a little over-nerfed with both DPM and DPS nerf

  • Its armor was never that great to begin with, and it was the gun and the mobility that kept it afloat.

Suggestion: 

K2: Keep its burst potential as is, but nerf its overall DPM to differentiate it from the Type 10. Adjust its armor profile to make it less resistant to kinetic rounds.

Type 10: Increase its DPM by a bit (not to Live server level but partially), but keep the DPS value as is (as in, keep the intra-shot reload nerf as of PTS stage 2) to differentiate it from the K2.

  • As a result, while the Type 10 does not have the DPS potential like it is right now in Live server, it retains its excellent DPM and will be great for extended engagements (and in PvE); 

  • K2 will now do more burst damage than the Type 10, but does not compete with it in consistent damage, resembling a hit-and-run play style that suits more to PvP but still viable in PvE.

Edited by Nekrosmas (see edit history)
  • Upvote 8

Spoiler

EHwxqNX.gif

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Nekrosmas said:

In general, I believe this update messed up more the general Rock Paper Scissors meta despite the intention to restore it.

Nekrosmas, thank you for all your detailed thoughtful and informative feedback.

Why is it necessary to make all these changes at once?  What's wrong with an incremental approach?  No doubt, the long term goal of the developers is to increase the player base.  I, for one, have a difficult time perceiving that outcome in all these changes.

Edited by Lt_Don_Shaljian (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

100% agree with @Nekrosmas

  • MBT mobility is insane despite the intentions to reduce it.
  • There's not really an acceptable balance right now. The meta just shifted towards other tanks. (looking at K2 for example)
  • The chip damage stuff and removal of HEAT bonus damage against thin armor is just retarded
  • How one can come to the conclusion that the Shadow is closer to being an AFV/TD hybrid than the SPHINX is well beyond me anyways
  • The totally unnecessary armor layout changes mess the whole game up and provide literally zero advantages for interesting gameplay. It just feels like devs are trying to make the game accessible for three year olds and mature people with no brain.
  • There's still ridiculous HE shells around. Even in PVP you can go full HE and be effective at the same time.

In the end we still have the same old, dumb rush meta in hightier PVP. On PTS nothing has changed in terms of gameplay. It's the same bs as before, maybe even worse becuase all you need right now are MBTs.


Spoiler

fdassdaas.jpg.c709df3e98adc5265f232fe9458a3043.jpg

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Lt_Don_Shaljian said:

Why is it necessary to make all these changes at once?  What's wrong with an incremental approach?  No doubt, the long term goal of the developers is to increase the player base.  I, for one, have a difficult time perceiving that outcome in all these changes.

All this will do is turn people away. Every time a developer does a big balance change to an existing game they loose a lot of players. Only time will tell if they come back after a while or not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/7/2020 at 10:53 PM, Lt_Don_Shaljian said:

.... Why is it necessary to make all these changes at once?  What's wrong with an incremental approach? ....

Big change in mechanics sounds like advertisement to raise interest and bring back some former players. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://aw.my.games/en/news/general/update-033-pts2-answers-feedback

Quote

The second stage of Update 0.33 PTS is now over and we were happy to see that your opinion on the update seems to have improved following the changed we’ve made that were described on our last article.

 

But our work is not yet done and there are concerns still left to address – and they will be, in the release version of Update 0.33, which is coming in the near future. Let us answer more of your questions in the meanwhile:

Wasn’t the K2 Black Panther too strong in PTS2?

We are already taking a look at the Black Panther. Its armor is supposed to be quite strong against AP shells, but not that much against HEAT and HESH rounds and the instant shell type switch should help with that. For the kinetic shells, there’s the lower frontal plate weakspot. As for its damage output, there are two other changes waiting for it:

  • First, its rate of fire on PTS2 was high than advertised, which was actually a bug
  • Second, we’ll be giving it the older (lower) rate of fire while improving its damage per shot and reducing its shell penetration values (the same goes for all the other MBTs that are supposed to have average penetration only compared to the other MBTs of their Tier)

That way, the Black Panther will become more balanced.

What about the Black Panther outperforming Type 10 by a lot? Does that seem right to you?

We’ll be buffing the PTS2 version of Type 10 as follows:

  • Its magazine rate of fire will return to the same value it has in Update 0.32
  • Its magazine reload time will be reduced (although it will still be a bit higher than in 0.32)
  • Shell penetration will increase so that it can defeat the Black Panther lower frontal plate

The Type 10 armor will remain the same as in PTS2, but considering it has better protection from HEAT and HESH shells than the one of the K2, all things considered, the vehicles will perform on par.

The armor of all MBTs in Update 0.33 seems to be the same on pretty much all vehicles, is that intended?

This is true merely at first glance because we have removed various strange and illogical weakspots. In reality, armor performance also depends heavily on its angle and type of shell. In Update 0.33, we have made an effort to make all weakspots easier to hide when playing the right way, which is why the lower frontal plates of many tanks are vulnerable. But one new thing to consider is the presence of weakspots for specific types of shells.

Take the K2 versus Type 10 example from above. The Black Panther MBT will be well-protected from APFSDS rounds, but vulnerable to HEAT and HESH rounds. For the Type 10, it’s vice versa. For the Merkavas, the frontal armor area that has an engine behind it will be better protected. These differences are something that wasn’t quite ready for PTS2, but will be ready for the live version. Don’t worry; armor layouts will be quite diverse.

It’s too difficult to perform well in scout AFVs. The ATGM launch camouflage penalty is too high!

We’ll be lowering it for the live version. All things considered, even light AFVs can do significant damage when played rights. But it is true that launching ATGMs was made more risky – that’s intended to complement the ATGM improvements in Update 0.33. High risk, high reward. On the other hand, we don’t want these AFVs to be great at both scouting and dealing damage the way it is in Update 0.32. Their gameplay will reflect the fact that it is easier to both acquire a target and fire at it than it is for Tank Destroyers. Tank Destroyers have to rely on others for target spotting. Hence, their damage output is higher.

There are several additional issues we want to address and we are confident that this update will make the game more enjoyable and fun.

 


Spoiler

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I played a couple of matches in the K2 and a couple in the Type 10.  i wish that i could have done it against someone in PvP to verify.

The K2 before this was rough to fight against in PvP, especially when the hull was dropped helping to set a more defensive angle.  The Type 10 was a bit of a "one-off" type thing that if you saw one it was usually a side profile and everyone on the map shot at it.  Now in PvE there is a small, but noticable difference in the K2 protection scheme but since the special abilities were turned off it seemed to eat more rounds through the front than normal.  With the Type 10 but it was a bit more pronounced.

Given how much similarities exist between the K2 and the Altay that the Altay wasn't mentioned as well?  I guess I missed something with the K2.


 

"If you were not birthed with claws or fangs, store bought will do just fine."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...