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Silentstalker

AW: Which way to go?

What would you do?  

44 members have voted

This poll is closed to new votes
  1. 1. What would you do?

    • Tune the game more towards PvP (that is, competitive gameplay at the expense of PvE content)
      1
    • Make the game continue the way it is now, a bit of a mix of both PvP and PvE
      20
    • Tune the game more towards PvE (that is, more PvE content at the expense of PvP one)
      23


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1 hour ago, Silentstalker said:

From the recent PTS poll, the mode preferences are as follows:

PvE: 75 percent
PvP: 8 percent
GLOPS: 17 percent

 

 

So let me get this completely straight,... . Those numbers seem, a touch confusing at first ...

Glops: which is a "developmental dead end", receives no love, no new maps, can only be effectively be played from T7 and up, is only liked by some obscure, niche segment of AWs players, and you're not even bothering to try and balance it any more because no-one really gives a shit about it, is despite all of this
OVER TWICE AS POPULAR AS PVP.

Edited by Lenticulas (see edit history)

"Yog-Sothoth knows the gate. Yog-Sothoth is the gate. Yog-Sothoth is the key and guardian of the gate. Past, present, future, all are one in Yog-Sothoth."

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34 minutes ago, Silentstalker said:

From the recent PTS poll, the mode preferences are as follows:

PvE: 75 percent
PvP: 8 percent
GLOPS: 17 percent

This is for the English/international community I assume? 

Tbh, I had expected the figure for PvP to be bigger and for PvE to be smaller. 

On a different note, has the game gotten a lower amount of players in recent weeks? It seems like the glops queue, especially t6 and t7 is way worse than at the start of the BP. I wonder if this has to do with the lag issues, the spotting issues, or players just getting burned out (from the BP etc)

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23 minutes ago, itzjustrick said:

... the glops queue, especially t6 and t7 is way worse than at the start of the BP.

You got that right. The temporary boost from the BP has now dried up, and it's back to stat padders, seal-clubbing the rest of us, because it's apparently better to have a 1 platoon match, and screw over the whole team who doesn't get the platoon, than make the 3 seal-clubbers wait for a bit longer in the queue.

This is so totally pissing me off, as the more observant of you might have noticed. [/rant]

 


"Yog-Sothoth knows the gate. Yog-Sothoth is the gate. Yog-Sothoth is the key and guardian of the gate. Past, present, future, all are one in Yog-Sothoth."

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For me, I like GLOP's.  It's....different, in a way curing some of the PvP issues but it has its other issues that come up too.

I like the PvE aspect of it, but after a while it does get old doing the same maps over and over again.

I think that once the Balance 3.0 gets implemented that some of the issues that are occurring in different game modes will make themselves more present and some will go away which would give a better look at what might be going on.

I love the PvP in AW and I have ever since the first night will all the issues that came with the server.


 

"If you were not birthed with claws or fangs, store bought will do just fine."

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Balance between both modes is what keep some people into it.

A shame that Glops is "dead" to the owners, a mode that a lot of PVE players use as introduction to PVP

I do remember a webm of a PVP map turned into Glops in a PTS, port storm maybe? wonder what happened to it

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3 hours ago, Lenticulas said:

You got that right. The temporary boost from the BP has now dried up, and it's back to stat padders, seal-clubbing the rest of us, because it's apparently better to have a 1 platoon match, and screw over the whole team who doesn't get the platoon, than make the 3 seal-clubbers wait for a bit longer in the queue.

This is so totally pissing me off, as the more observant of you might have noticed. [/rant]

 

I know it'd never happen, but I'd rather they disable platoons in GLOPS, leave it entirely to randoms while trying to tweak the matchmaker as much as possible.

Edited by reciprocate (see edit history)

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I think the most powerful feature of AW is that we actually have a choice among the different modes, depending on what we want to accomplish on a particular day.

As a relatively new player with developing skills, I like having different modes for different purposes. And the game needs more players to survive, so creating an experience that is new-player-friendly yet is able to grow with the player as they develop is what helps hold interest.

GLOPS is by far the most thrilling. Even though there are lots of more skilled players about, one can feel good about contributing, whether it's by holding a cap, setting up an AT team or UAV, or at least not dying without taking an enemy or two with you. And the economy rewards even these modest contributions, which are within reach of a developing player. Sometimes I wish we could have "baby GLOPS" using Tier 2-3 vehicles, maybe on a smaller map like Narrows to make up for the reduced mobility... right now with the current queue waits it feels like GLOPS is pretty much a tier 9-10 thing, almost like heroics. I can try to play GLOPS with a T7 or T8, but it's mostly an exercise in trying not to die too much... with a tendency to inhibit the audacity that teammates want in SpecOps/PvE.

To do GLOPS (or random battle PvP) well, you need to have a capable vehicle. Even the prem vehicles need to have their crews up to at least level 3 in order to be fun to play. The PvE environment allows for vehicle grinding, as well as some combat shakedown for crews and commanders. It's a good classroom to understand how to play a particular vehicle. The constancy of the bot AI allows a player to compare the properties of different vehicles with a more predictable opponent. Yes, it may not be as clever as a human opponent in PvP, but it's at least a good yardstick for what's going to work vs what isn't.  The Albino test area is really too static and sterile for doing much beyond basic familiarization. If PvE were to go away, it might be nice to have a mode like the second half of the tutorial (solo player vs bots) that could be played with a vehicle besides the T72. 

The turn-off for PvP Random Battles for new players is that you don't really get that much action if you are destroyed early. You wait in queue for a match, maybe make a few credits for waiting, then enter the match, get blown up in a couple minutes, then spend the next 12 minutes watching everyone else play. Lather, rinse, repeat. So it winds up you have maybe 2 minutes worth of action for 20-25 minutes of sitting around. The PvE action cycle allows for much more time playing, less time twiddling thumbs.

...

On a more meta note, I like the community we have here - not quite as much of a cultural clique as, say, EVE, but at least a core of people willing to help advance the game and make it fun (and have conversations like this one.)  I think it might be helpful to help create a bit more of a bond among players. Right now, the battalion contracts are good if you have a huge corps with lots of members, but if you have a medium, small, or tiny battalion it doesn't quite work out that well. Likewise, the universal seasonal contract is pretty much out of reach for most new players in T1-T3.  So maybe having a few different contracts to choose from at different levels might create some objectives that are achievable by folks just starting out.  

Maybe some kind of alliance system among battalions - (Brigades? Divisions?) would help do this - a group of battalions who wanted to work together could federate, and nominate a brigade commander, should there be a need for one, or share the seat among the constituent battalion commanders on a rotating basis. Kind of like the conference system in collegiate sports.

DVC,

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I am pure pve player but i voted middle way both modes are needed pvp(globs), pve from my point of view and watching random streamers or people reactions is about 60-70% problem too long queue times. And some people just leaved this game because of that when they can play wot where they wait max 30 seconds. Will be nice some tweak of queue because who should want to play something where waiting 2-5 minutes in queue because someone take merkava and system cannot find opposite vehicle of same weight one way for me is lower max players to 7-10 and let 15 only in globs because big maps and focus to make times so much faster to combine group. Another problem was physics of vehicle which looks in 0,33 much better and not every obstacle did not make your vehicle jump ten meters into air or rotate you backwards.

In pve i don't know how to make it more balanced i liked special operations because it is something new but from opposite way i don't like i must go that rotation of 4 maps again and again. I like high difficulty things but there is another problem what happened in moscow ch4 is when you playing solo and that is other people, they just ignoring objectives and you lose hundred times only because you must learn how to complete it solo and pray for people who know how to do something.

1.One way is make fail safe missions where you will just go forward and only way how to lose is not enough time but that will make all missions easy because no hurry. that will by maybe good only like low difficulty for non groups.

2.Other way is i think completely impossible mad idea make missions when you fail possible restart from checkpoints something like world of warcraft dungeons where you have bosses as checkpoint after you die you did not start from beginning but you will respawn at last checkpoint at same time it will be removed actual system respawn for money and maybe will be added some consumable who will work as resurrect item who will cost maybe like respawns around 50k per use with some limited use like once per complete group wipe and it will work only when you are not spotted and nobody is in battle, all respawning at checkpoint will be for money too(some low price because you msut count like moscow you will do it 20-30 times) there will be choice to leave or continue when you leave queue will search different player who will continue from your point, if game will be this way rewards from missions will must be changed too and reward will be purely for objectives and not for dmg, kills spots etc... to make new joined people rewarded for his portion of work too even without 2/3 of mission.(this is practically battalion spec ops system where is same reward just for completing game no matter game stats).

i know second way in pve is impossible but i am sure it will be good way make pve little more enjoyable with more harder difficulty.

Sorry if you don't understand my text i am not good in english and translator mostly did not help much in long text.

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23 hours ago, Silentstalker said:

From the recent PTS poll, the mode preferences are as follows:

PvE: 75 percent
PvP: 8 percent
GLOPS: 17 percent

 

 

Can´t say that i like those numbers. ;)

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24 minutes ago, Friesenstahl said:

Can´t say that i like those numbers. ;)

Well, they are what they are

PvE: cream cake, everyone likes cake! No brainer.

Glops: chili tuna baguette, nice but obviously not a cream cake, popularity wise

PvP: shit sandwich

Edited by Lenticulas (see edit history)

"Yog-Sothoth knows the gate. Yog-Sothoth is the gate. Yog-Sothoth is the key and guardian of the gate. Past, present, future, all are one in Yog-Sothoth."

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I am Primarly a PvE player in this Game. I came from and still play in the MechWarrior universe and from that into the Wargaming series as a tester then an on and off player in all three games plus a Bunch of Fantasy games and Ark Survival Evolved now primarly in PvE as there I got burned out on PvP in the huge interserver wars I think the tribes I was with lost over a thousand tames in total. My background is as a US Army Tactical instructor in Guided Anti Tank systems, scouting including armor and wheeled vehicle driving instruction and vehicle mounted Machinegun training also, Mechanics and as a Drill Sergeant. I have seen my share of serious injury events up close and personal. I spend a fair amount of time each day studing the background history of every vehicle I use in Game I have seen most of the WW II captured Vehicles the US Held in the past in person before transfers back to Europe started and A fair amount of the Newer US Vehicles as I retired in 1998.

I would like to see both PvE and PvP advance in quality with Map building contests involving the player base as much as is legally possible. I did One Battle in GLOPs and All I saw was players with  no understanding of how to win. I have seen much the same in the Campaign battles where players ignored caps over and over just chasing very hard to catch scouts drawing them away from Winning by a quick CAP. I throughly enjoy the battle path program and would like to see it continue.  I will play and pay for  the joy this game brings me as long as your team can keep it going and my body holds out as I am 68 now.

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Hey, just out of curiosity, were those player-count numbers adjusted for hour-to-hour performance of the server?  I'd imagine getting a PVP Random to queue could be a real challenge with relatively few players, by compared to the five needed for a PVE, leading to a lot more folks going for PVEs to have something to play, instead of playing queue simulator for an hour hoping for a single PVP.  

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43 minutes ago, Komitadjie said:

Hey, just out of curiosity, were those player-count numbers adjusted for hour-to-hour performance of the server?  I'd imagine getting a PVP Random to queue could be a real challenge with relatively few players, by compared to the five needed for a PVE, leading to a lot more folks going for PVEs to have something to play, instead of playing queue simulator for an hour hoping for a single PVP.  

No. During off-hours, PvE makes up for like 90-95 percent of matches.

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Dang, I didn't expect it to be quite that high, I would have put a guess in the 80% range.  I guess once it drops below critical number in the queue, there's not much point to keep trying to queue, may as well grab some PVEs.  

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I come to play AW only because of the PVE, but I understand there is still a core base that mainly plays PVP.

IMO the devs should continue developing content for both PVP and PVE, and have some assets like map creation shared across the modes; spec ops is nice, but there are a lot of assets in the latest seasons that just aren't being used anywhere elsewhere.

Right now apart from game balance / power creep issues, there are lots of content that just feel like deadend:

GLOPS has a lot of potential, but suffers from numerous problems, and to PVE players it's really just another PVP but with respawns; there isn't much "PVE" for them to do apart from 3rd faction bots on some maps, which aren't even mission critical. Giving PVE players something specific that they can go for while PVP players aim to intercept attackers / defend objectives would be an interesting direction (if it's possible).

Heroics is another mode that would seem like too much of a hurdle for ordinary players. It does has its appeal for requiring strategies different from ordinary PVE play to achieve the goals. Maybe a new mode featuring varying enemy classes and/or lieutenant archetypes on rotation on specific maps can let players try out different strategies (like a puzzle mode of some sort).

Then we have the low tier vehicles. I still think their balance is wack after Arabian Nights update in December 2018, and they are barely touched afterwards. Low tier vehicles should allow players to learn the ropes and let them slowly climb to the more advanced, high tier vehicles, but instead they are encouraged to be progressed in a fast rate and be left forgotten afterwards. Missile damage proportion is also crazy (1/3 to 1/2 HP per hit to some MBTs), or that tanks have difficulties surviving them (some tanks can't even tank missiles in the turret). It's hard to recommend people to come to play the game with those things in mind.


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If it wasnt for GLOPS mode I wouldnt be playing AW. Burnt out on standard PVP long ago, now I only do some pvp mathces for achivement camo rewards. PVE is entertaining once in awhile. But PVE alone would not keep me here.

I have always felt that GLOPS actually lets you play vehicles in their intended way compare to PVP(Aka follow the lemming train or your dead). The large maps lets the scouts do their job, supporting the tds and others. Its a fluid game mode, full of action and no battle feels the same.

As for GLOPS being a pain to balance, atleast start with limiting the freaking mt-lbs, paindads, leclercs t40s, cattbs, 490s and marders just to mention a few. Do not let a platoon team up in glops with 3 cattbs, 3mt-lbs and etc. 

And I have to say do some solid testing of vehicles and commanders before they get released into the wild. Most of the worst problems we see with 'balance' today can be related to this.

BTW I would not miss the wildcards in GLOPS if they get removed.

Edited by Norse_Viking (see edit history)
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23 hours ago, Norse_Viking said:

If it wasnt for GLOPS mode I wouldnt be playing AW. Burnt out on standard PVP long ago, now I only do some pvp mathces for achivement camo rewards. PVE is entertaining once in awhile. But PVE alone would not keep me here.

I have always felt that GLOPS actually lets you play vehicles in their intended way compare to PVP(Aka follow the lemming train or your dead). The large maps lets the scouts do their job, supporting the tds and others. Its a fluid game mode, full of action and no battle feels the same.

As for GLOPS being a pain to balance, atleast start with limiting the freaking mt-lbs, paindads, leclercs t40s, cattbs, 490s and marders just to mention a few. Do not let a platoon team up in glops with 3 cattbs, 3mt-lbs and etc. 

And I have to say do some solid testing of vehicles and commanders before they get released into the wild. Most of the worst problems we see with 'balance' today can be related to this.

BTW I would not miss the wildcards in GLOPS if they get removed.

I won't make excuses for them, but I see this type of development ideology in Path of Exile. Some overpowered set of mechanics interacting with certain items becomes available and people exploit the crap out of it leading to a "development manifesto" as Grinding Gear Games likes to call it which is just code for: "We're going to nerf stuff since we didn't expect our playerbase and community to exploit the crap out of it." That would've been noticed if there were more people testing things internally and they had a larger set of players reporting such matters before every 3 or so months when a new league/major content patch drops onto the game.

The same can be said here for AW where just about every Battle Path Tier 10 final reward vehicle is more or less some semblance of power creep. I actually regret I didn't fork over the $ to get OPhelia. I'm glad she's finally getting addressed, but even if she doesn't get directly nerfed, she's still made enough money for them to warrant keeping her untouched.

I hate the fact game companies do this, release barely tested content that seems invariably overpowered and gate it behind some form of pay mechanics, then nerf it or tone it down after awhile, but still has a clear advantage in power over many other changes equivalent to it's tier.

Edited by reciprocate (see edit history)

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4 hours ago, reciprocate said:

I won't make excuses for them, but I see this type of development ideology in Path of Exile. Some overpowered set of mechanics interacting with certain items becomes available and people exploit the crap out of it leading to a "development manifesto" as Grinding Gear Games likes to call it which is just code for: "We're going to nerf stuff since we didn't expect our playerbase and community to exploit the crap out of it." That would've been noticed if there were more people testing things internally and they had a larger set of players reporting such matters before every 3 or so months when a new league/major content patch drops onto the game.

The same can be said here for AW where just about every Battle Path Tier 10 final reward vehicle is more or less some semblance of power creep. I actually regret I didn't fork over the $ to get OPhelia. I'm glad she's finally getting addressed, but even if she doesn't get directly nerfed, she's still made enough money for them to warrant keeping her untouched.

I hate the fact game companies do this, release barely tested content that seems invariably overpowered and gate it behind some form of pay mechanics, then nerf it or tone it down after awhile, but still has a clear advantage in power over many other changes equivalent to it's tier.

Hmmm, have you read the first 0.33 Tier 7-10 rebalance dev diary about power creep? Sounds like we addressed exactly what you are talking about:

https://aw.my.games/en/news/general/tier-7-10-rebalance-part-1-power-creep

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we'll see if OPhelia gets properly nerfed ...

I'm betting 'no' - believe me I'd like to be wrong.

Edited by Lenticulas (see edit history)
  • Upvote 1

"Yog-Sothoth knows the gate. Yog-Sothoth is the gate. Yog-Sothoth is the key and guardian of the gate. Past, present, future, all are one in Yog-Sothoth."

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3 hours ago, Lenticulas said:

we'll see if OPhelia gets properly nerfed ...

I'm betting 'no' - believe me I'd like to be wrong.

It is very, very difficult for them to nerf Ophelia because people paid real money to get her.  That'd be like moving a Premium vehicle down in Tier - you paid for something that is now less valuable.

I get that she's OP in PvP and/or GLOPS, but honestly she's fine in PvE.  I don't even use her all that much anymore.  GLOPS isn't a good argument for nerfing her.  As SS said elsewhere, GLOPS has inherent problems caused by the fact that you get to respawn over and over.

If they can find a way to tweak her so that she's not so toxic in PvP, but not really affect her at all in PvE, then that'd be fine.  But fixing the GLOPS problem would likely be difficult to do without making her - a very expensive Premium commander - nigh useless in PvE.  And that would be a very bad thing to do.

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21 hours ago, Silentstalker said:

Hmmm, have you read the first 0.33 Tier 7-10 rebalance dev diary about power creep? Sounds like we addressed exactly what you are talking about:

https://aw.my.games/en/news/general/tier-7-10-rebalance-part-1-power-creep

Yeah I have, as well as some of the feedback posted here. But that's not what I'm talking about, while I appreciate the huge effort rebalance for higher tiers is in progress, I'm talking about the aspect of P2W type premiums (Battle Path tier10's) especially. Altay is probably the least desirable of the four that exist there now funnily enough. Type10 may end up getting nerfed, CATTB got hit with the nerfbat a couple of times, but mainly after enough people got it and it's still at a state to be considered strong and you guys plan to have it purchasable again in the near future. Gotta get that $$$ right? It's too hard for your bosses to allow these types of max tier MBTs to even be put onto a PTS because you'd spoil the surprise of a future Battle Path end reward. But hey, let's ignore game balance, we need that $$$ so we don't go into the red even if it means it screws up the meta for a little bit. Get 10k gold bundles for <$35 USD up every month or two so people will buy it to get preferential matchmaking on vehicles in the 0.33 as well, create a goldsink for better matchmaking, that goes beyond the realm of pay for convenience, that's practically P2W. No, I'm well aware of various things and even though I still enjoy playing this game from time to time, it's sad it's gotten this money hungry. 

16 hours ago, knutliott said:

It is very, very difficult for them to nerf Ophelia because people paid real money to get her.  That'd be like moving a Premium vehicle down in Tier - you paid for something that is now less valuable.

I get that she's OP in PvP and/or GLOPS, but honestly she's fine in PvE.  I don't even use her all that much anymore.  GLOPS isn't a good argument for nerfing her.  As SS said elsewhere, GLOPS has inherent problems caused by the fact that you get to respawn over and over.

If they can find a way to tweak her so that she's not so toxic in PvP, but not really affect her at all in PvE, then that'd be fine.  But fixing the GLOPS problem would likely be difficult to do without making her - a very expensive Premium commander - nigh useless in PvE.  And that would be a very bad thing to do.

When one commander is more or less the de-facto top choice for 2 out of the 3 game modes for almost every tank and vehicle to use you got a problem. No amount of ass-covering will hide that fact. I'd like to see her get nerfed so her power level of usability is a bit more in line to others (but SS already confirmed they won't touch her). If people are so worried about her being nerfed, then buff other commanders. Why not give Austin Harper a rework (he's irrelevant for the most part) and he was a commander stuck behind a Battle Path grind. Give people reasonable options to choose someone other than OPhelia at so things don't like so messed up in regards to balance for PvP/GLOPS - I really hope that the other commanders, especially the ones that are least played do get another series of buffs or reworks in the near future so they become viable alternatives for OPhelia.

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10 hours ago, reciprocate said:

When one commander is more or less the de-facto top choice for 2 out of the 3 game modes for almost every tank and vehicle to use you got a problem. No amount of ass-covering will hide that fact. I'd like to see her get nerfed so her power level of usability is a bit more in line to others (but SS already confirmed they won't touch her). If people are so worried about her being nerfed, then buff other commanders. Why not give Austin Harper a rework (he's irrelevant for the most part) and he was a commander stuck behind a Battle Path grind. Give people reasonable options to choose someone other than OPhelia at so things don't like so messed up in regards to balance for PvP/GLOPS - I really hope that the other commanders, especially the ones that are least played do get another series of buffs or reworks in the near future so they become viable alternatives for OPhelia.

Except that the 3 game modes are not equal - PvE is 75% even during prime time, and 90-95% during off peak times (stats posted by SS earlier in this thread).  So even if Ophelia were the only commander ever used in PvP and GLOPS, she's still be used less than half of the time overall.

But yes, the correct answer is to buff other commanders to make them more viable.  As offensively powerful as Cortez and Douglas are in PvE, they're still only ~10% bonuses in total.  They're about as powerful as a level 2 retrofit.  Buff other commanders to where they're viable options and the game will get more interesting.

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On 9/2/2020 at 3:19 PM, knutliott said:

Except that the 3 game modes are not equal - PvE is 75% even during prime time, and 90-95% during off peak times (stats posted by SS earlier in this thread).  So even if Ophelia were the only commander ever used in PvP and GLOPS, she's still be used less than half of the time overall.

But yes, the correct answer is to buff other commanders to make them more viable.  As offensively powerful as Cortez and Douglas are in PvE, they're still only ~10% bonuses in total.  They're about as powerful as a level 2 retrofit.  Buff other commanders to where they're viable options and the game will get more interesting.

I would particularly emphasize this with buffs that *change* how vehicles are played.  Most commanders offer small bonuses to stats.  They improve a vehicle, but really don't make any significant difference in play style.  A stealth vehicle becomes a very slightly better stealth vehicle, a MBT becomes a slightly better MBT, etc.  No actual change.  Ophelia is unique because she can actually change HOW a vehicle can be played.  You can be FAR more aggressive than you could otherwise.  It would be neat, I think, to have the other commanders reworked to offer interesting, unique, and game-changing mechanics as well.  Say, give one a cannon overload that gives you one supercharged shot every minute or two.  Or let one call in an off-screen artillery strike at the point of aim once every so often.  How about a repair burst ability that heals you, or your target for a set amount?  Stuff like that.  Things that *change* the gameplay, instead of just tweaking stats a little bit.

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On 9/4/2020 at 7:00 AM, Komitadjie said:

I would particularly emphasize this with buffs that *change* how vehicles are played.  Most commanders offer small bonuses to stats.  They improve a vehicle, but really don't make any significant difference in play style.  A stealth vehicle becomes a very slightly better stealth vehicle, a MBT becomes a slightly better MBT, etc.  No actual change.  Ophelia is unique because she can actually change HOW a vehicle can be played.  You can be FAR more aggressive than you could otherwise.  It would be neat, I think, to have the other commanders reworked to offer interesting, unique, and game-changing mechanics as well.  Say, give one a cannon overload that gives you one supercharged shot every minute or two.  Or let one call in an off-screen artillery strike at the point of aim once every so often.  How about a repair burst ability that heals you, or your target for a set amount?  Stuff like that.  Things that *change* the gameplay, instead of just tweaking stats a little bit.

So, I think we have learned: don't do that. Ie OPhelia

If you are thinking of introducing some completely "thinking out of the box", game-ruining feature, why the hell would you do that, devs?

 Try something that can be balanced, or adjusted, not some all or nothing pay-to-win nonsense

PS I don't mean you @Komitadjie

 

Edited by Lenticulas
More blood in the alcohol-stream (see edit history)

"Yog-Sothoth knows the gate. Yog-Sothoth is the gate. Yog-Sothoth is the key and guardian of the gate. Past, present, future, all are one in Yog-Sothoth."

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