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Quantum_Ranger

AW battle doctrine - squishy scout vs heavy scout

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Originally, I thought the squishies were supposed to go spotting, narrowly escaping obliteration thanks to their mobility... and the heavies were to creep along, knocking out the spotted targets.

Now especially at higher tiers, there seem to be a lot of squishy vehicles capable of doing really high DPM, leading to an MBT taking point and being cheesed while covering for the squishies.

As mostly an MBT driver, I'm happy to do what I'm supposed to do... I just don't know what the current doctrine is (which may very well change after the re-balance.)  Much despair among AFV/TD operators about lack of protection from MBTs, and groaning from MBT drivers about doing recon.   As I contemplate retros, doctrine will affects my leanings towards buffing vision vs firepower.

If it varies by match, is there a way of communicating amongst platoon/battalion-mates as to what doctrine we are using? 

Apologies for sounding dense (It took a few signals and 30 seconds to figure out my M1A1 was to be Magnus' rescue chauffeur to the Moscow airstrip yesterday, even though there were faster vehicles closer to the prison. I guess they felt the heavy would protect him best, even though they did a great job clearing the way and the trip was totally bot-less.) Again, just not quite sure what my job description was supposed to be, until somebody helped clue me in.

Thanks, DVC, QR

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The game's balance is pretty off kilter when it comes to spotting and rewards for spotting.  Realistically the entire mechanism needs to be re-done so that the more "traditional" roles can be filled correctly.

Scouts (read: AFVs) should be the best spotters, and should fill the role as you've described it.  They should be the ones pointing out targets for the rest of the team and making sure tha the team doesn't get flanked.

MBTs shouldn't be spotting everything, but they should have a special mechanic that allows them to spot vehicles that fire at them.  I.e. MBTs should be good at returning fire, but not at spotting everything for the entire team.

MBTs should also get credit for taking fire - if enemies are concentrating on our team's MBT(s), that allows the rest of the team to do their jobs better.  Currently MBTs receive no credit for this function despite it being arguably the 2nd most important function on the team.  (Spotting first, tanking second, damage third.  At least IMO.)

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1 hour ago, Quantum_Ranger said:

Now especially at higher tiers, there seem to be a lot of squishy vehicles capable of doing really high DPM, leading to an MBT taking point and being cheesed while covering for the squishies.

That's the PvE meta atm. 

Since bots are incredibly sharp and inhumanly accurate, "squishy" spotters are often destroyed within seconds of being spotted by AI (unless they smoke up and/or relocate immediately). The maps and enemy spawns are also to blame, since mission objectives and/or routes often force vehicles to enter/follow corridors regardless of class (and armor).

This has largely pushed traditional "PvP spotters" (mainly AFVs, LTs) to become snipers and/or flankers, as the "squishies" primarily benefit from a combination of high DPM (or burst), good mobility, decent gun/weapon handling, and greater camouflage.

1 hour ago, Quantum_Ranger said:

As I contemplate retros, doctrine will affects my leanings towards buffing vision vs firepower.

Regardless of mode, the gun breech retro is essentially a no-brainer (especially for vehicles with long grinds and/or those you expect to continue playing after reaching "renowned"). Vision is emphasized in PvE, so optics are highly recommended. However, It's a whole 'nother story for PvP modes.

2 hours ago, Quantum_Ranger said:

If it varies by match, is there a way of communicating amongst platoon/battalion-mates as to what doctrine we are using? 

With randoms? Good luck.

If you are platooned, it's helpful to organize yourselves before beginning. Either through the platoon text box or VoIP programs is fine, although the latter is preferred. 

33 minutes ago, knutliott said:

MBTs should also get credit for taking fire - if enemies are concentrating on our team's MBT(s), that allows the rest of the team to do their jobs better.  Currently MBTs receive no credit for this function despite it being arguably the 2nd most important function on the team.  (Spotting first, tanking second, damage third.  At least IMO.)

Agreed. But MBTs would need a nerf to their vision (0.33) for such a mechanic to become viable, as MBTs already dominate most of their matches (whether PvE or PvP). Since MBTs already perform the majority of the spotting (especially in PvE), I believe only such a compromise would encourage more diverse class-based gameplay.

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17 hours ago, di_duncan said:

But MBTs would need a nerf to their vision (0.33) for such a mechanic to become viable, as MBTs already dominate most of their matches (whether PvE or PvP). Since MBTs already perform the majority of the spotting (especially in PvE), I believe only such a compromise would encourage more diverse class-based gameplay.

It depends on comparison method, like do we actually expect bad players on AFV be as effective as bad players on MBT. How many AFV players play purely to deal damage and they simply don't want to spot? And why AFV was gained such tremendous firepower (sphinx, kornet), are they going to give up some of it in this new diverse model ?

Per my observation some PvE missions layout (Cavalry and Perseus) with open space already made MBT quite obsolete cannon fodder because AFV / TD can spot and deal damage for themselves, all it takes just right view range and camo stacking (and play carefully). These maps are best PvE maps for all kind of sniper gameplay, while any MBT can be melted quick if it is going to "scout" without good self-spotting (with exception of CATTB, 490)

 

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20 hours ago, knutliott said:

MBTs should also get credit for taking fire - if enemies are concentrating on our team's MBT(s), that allows the rest of the team to do their jobs better.  

I think there should be some sort of achievement for accumulating Target medals. Can't the devs at least give us a decal for them, like they do for the contract achievements?

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