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di_duncan

The Best and Worst of AW...

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Hello.

Instead of my usual over-analysis, I'll be posting something [hopefully] amusing today. I present to you, two GlOps games I've played recently:

2QiPQJf.jpg

Game 1 (Roughneck)

6p24ktS.jpg

Game 2 (Grindelwald)

I am platooned with my friend Shrek. Both of us are playing vehicles which we enjoy, despite their objective uncompetitiveness (at least for GlOps). Games were back to back. Game 1 was on Roughneck, while Game 2 was played on Grindelwald. One resulted in a resounding victory, while the other was an appalling loss.

I challenge this community to guess the final outcome of these games based solely upon their final scoreboards. First one to guess correctly get a free upvote from me :P

I would also like to invite anyone and everyone to post similarly intriguing/frustrating/ridiculous (etc.) games regardless of outcome, gamemode and/or performance. I'm very interesting in hearing the stories/contexts behind the many distinct and diverse experiences of everyone in AW.

PS: Cheers to @dark_demigod from LABS (if you're here) and @Zemosu for their participation in these battles ;)

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Game one was probably a loose given the GLOPS points your team earned even tough both teams did roughly the same damage.

Game two I'd guess for a loose again given the GLOPS points earned (not quite sure on this one). Even if your team did significantly more damage than the enemy the enemy managed to hold the points better. It seems like the enemy TDs managed to cap/decap better than yours but did less damage.

I continue and add this one for you guys to guess (GLOPS game on Narrows):

rGLK8fI.jpg

Edited by TeyKey1 (see edit history)

Spoiler

fdassdaas.jpg.c709df3e98adc5265f232fe9458a3043.jpg

 

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You guys should remove last colums, they give away the answer. Exp earned. 

Di_Duncan :

1 loss, noone went and capped. 

2 won, victory decided by damage done

TeyKey1 :

Loss, other team won by damage done

 

Will see if i can find some end results to post later 

Edited by Norse_Viking (see edit history)
  • Upvote 1

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7 minutes ago, Norse_Viking said:

You guys should remove last colums, they give away the answer. Exp earned. 

Whoops correct :snrk:


Spoiler

fdassdaas.jpg.c709df3e98adc5265f232fe9458a3043.jpg

 

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17 hours ago, Norse_Viking said:

You guys should remove last colums, they give away the answer. Exp earned.

Overlooked that... Crap :(

Smart of you to reference experience gained though. 

17 hours ago, Norse_Viking said:

Di_Duncan :

1 loss, noone went and capped. 

2 won, victory decided by damage done

DING! DING! DING! We have a winner. Have an upvote ;)

Although both of your interpretations are technically true, I would argue that they are too simplistic. Capping and damage dealt are certainly important in GlOps, but unfortunately they do not reveal the whole picture. I'll try to provide some insight from my perspective:

 

19 hours ago, di_duncan said:

2QiPQJf.jpg

Game 1 (Roughneck)

Game 1:

Ignoring post-match stats and the final result, if we compare the teams based on the criteria I've elaborated on here, team composition, vehicle combat effectiveness, and player skill all seem to be in favour of our team. 

Team Composition:

  • 4 T-15s against none on the opposing team
  • Only 5 MBTs against us, while we have 6  

Vehicle Combat Effectiveness:

  • T-15s are extremely versatile and capable. Overperforming
  • Obj 490 is extremely tough to eliminate, can push and contest caps.
  • Excellent offensive MBT capability with the K2 (great frontal armor + burst damage), Leclerc T4 (DPM) and even the Type 99A2 (speedy)

       vs

  • Similar MBT capabilities
  • 2 Wilks = significant module damage (PELE)
  • Several Kornet ATGM snipers, with double-tap missiles.

Player Skill:

  • Few players of note on both teams, but we have Shrek (who consistently performs well in any vehicle)

Despite these advantages on paper, this game was a disaster due to the following:

  • We had the southeast spawn, which was naturally a disadvantage
  • T-15s were rather lackluster, performing poorly and not carrying their weight
  • MBTs were evicerated by the Wilks firing PELE, and could not attack or even properly defend caps
    • Many friendly MBTs were also below [expected] standards
  • Eventual disregard for caps as the team faltered in the latter stages of the match

Our team's poor showing suggests yet another phenomenon in AW, the skill/effort gap.

As I've outlined in this post, T-15s in particular seem to be inconsistent and/or unpredictable; some being exceeding dominant while many are incompetent, ineffective or just simply average. Perhaps this shines a light on why the T-15 is even in it's current overperforming state. As a vehicle, it seems to be simple to get into and play, but quite difficult to master. Considering its popularity, the average majority of T-15 players have likely "diluted" the vehicle's statistics, which may have influenced the balance changes that have led to the T-15's current overpowered state.

Of course, skill gap(s) exist for any and every vehicle; with the main difference being the scale of the gap itself. Vehicles which are tough to master (such as the T-15) will obviously feature a greater range of players with varying levels of ability, mastery, and competence. Idiot-proof vehicles then (like the 490), will subsequently have a smaller/narrower range for individual skill.

As for effort, it's an extraneous factor which is unfortunately nigh impossible to determine, much less control. However, the post-game stat sheet clearly indicates a disparity between the opposition's effort and the effort put in by our team. Perhaps most notable is the distribution of and the difference between capture points. Whereas even their Wilks and Kornets have assisted in capturing, nearly two thirds of our team have zero capture points. 

 

19 hours ago, di_duncan said:

6p24ktS.jpg

Game 2 (Grindelwald)

Game 2:

This was an exhilarating battle to say the least. We started from the south, which I generally prefer (at least for LTs). One of my best games with regards to assist damage, despite not using any wildcards. However, as much as I'd like to boast about my personal performance, this game stands out as the single most organized and coordinated team effort I've witnessed in AW. All without any "cheese" vehicles (T-15, T40, CATTB, etc.) on our team.

18 hours ago, TeyKey1 said:

Game two I'd guess for a loose again given the GLOPS points earned (not quite sure on this one). Even if your team did significantly more damage than the enemy the enemy managed to hold the points better.

Not quite. While I can understand why you would think this to be the case, the enemy team's capture point advantage was most likely a consequence of their early pushes to capture point 2 and 3 (two adjacent eastern caps during the first phase) and point 8 (single eastern capture point during the final phase). 

Because the majority of our team were focused on point 1 at the start of the match, our opponents were able to blitzkrieg forward to capture points 2 and 3 with little opposition. Although prioritizing point 1 is often a mistake, point 1 also happens to be the easiest point to hold/defend. Our team was able to secure point 1, albeit with losses. However, as if on cue, those who died capturing point 1 collectively respawned in the east, pushing the enemy out of point 2 and subsequently capturing it as well.

During the final phase, the enemy team largely ignored the west, allowing friendlies to capture point 9 while I capped point 10 uncontested. With the vast majority of the opposition occupied on point 8, opponents attempting to capture points in the west were easily reset and eliminated. 

18 hours ago, TeyKey1 said:

It seems like the enemy TDs managed to cap/decap better than yours but did less damage.

While our TDs/snipers certainly did not help much with capturing points, I must commend them on their ruthless accuracy and efficiency. I am generally critical of snipers regardless of which team they end up on, but our snipers played a pivotal role during this match. Most (if not all) of them prioritized their targets, resetting efficiently while also remaining situationally aware of distant target(s) lit up by scouts/spotters. Ultimately, without our snipers, both Shrek and I would've had significantly less assisting damage.

Edited by di_duncan
Additional comments (see edit history)

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14 hours ago, TeyKey1 said:

I continue and add this one for you guys to guess (GLOPS game on Narrows):

rGLK8fI.jpg

As for @TeyKey1's game, I can somewhat instinctively tell that this is a loss simply by looking at your post-game stats.

I find that many defeats feature players who aren't leading the team in damage at the top of their team. There seem to be far fewer occurrences of this on winning teams.

Considering this match was on Narrows, am I correct in assuming your opponents were able to capture and hold point 3 (easternmost cap) during the second (and final) phase of the game? Respective team composition(s) combined with the disparity in damage and kills seems to suggest the opposition was likely better equipped (for Narrows at least) and more skilled, resulting in them steamrolling your friendlies, who remained out of action (waiting to respawn) far too long to mount an effective counterattack.

Somewhat confused by your team's massive capture point advantage though... 

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8 hours ago, di_duncan said:

Considering this match was on Narrows, am I correct in assuming your opponents were able to capture and hold point 3 (easternmost cap) during the second (and final) phase of the game? Respective team composition(s) combined with the disparity in damage and kills seems to suggest the opposition was likely better equipped (for Narrows at least) and more skilled, resulting in them steamrolling your friendlies, who remained out of action (waiting to respawn) far too long to mount an effective counterattack.

You're partly right with your assumtion, however basically we lost the game because of one guy misplacing an airstrike :kek:

Basically we gained an advantage in the first phase, resulting in lots of our people in the west side of the map while the second phase was activated. So naturally the enemy was able to secure cap 3 without any problem. Our team was quite fast in regaining control of cap 3 because the enemy somehow wasn't positioned too well. Only reason they could stay in reach ticket wise was because of their insane damage output. Then the enemy managed to sweep cap 3 area and started to cap it. It was like (us)500-300(enemy) ticket wise at this point. Nobody could reset it but at the same time someone of our team had an airstrike available. Now the funny thing is he placed it completely wrong resulting in the enemy being able to cap 3 instead of us delivering them a lethal blow with the airstrike (which probably would have decided the match). Enemy took advantage of this and pushed up to our spawn leaving us no chance to regain control of cap 3. It was just another total facepalm moment in GLOPS :dedseal:

Edited by TeyKey1 (see edit history)

Spoiler

fdassdaas.jpg.c709df3e98adc5265f232fe9458a3043.jpg

 

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1 hour ago, Yuyuko said:

Do your damage and your killings, back to garage. 

Thats PvP 101. xD:officer_sexii:

Cap, defend cap, damage and kill. Thats Glops 101 :)

 

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10 minutes ago, Norse_Viking said:

Cap, defend cap, damage and kill. Thats Glops 101 :)

 

Like people do that. they rather camp and you use as a bait to farm their damage. :)

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3 hours ago, TeyKey1 said:

Ghostfield GLOPS:

mdqA5iY.jpg

i'm probably wrong but it looks like you slaughtered them ... although it's difficult to judge from the glops points, and the exact formula for points vs. actually effective capping.

If you didn't slaughter them you should have, they were dead most of the time.

You had a mafia guy, 10/10 clan players vs. 8, an extra Type 10 prem, and one from COBET... who mysteriously came second from last, despite 19k dam.... hit some teammates with an airstrike?

Edited by Lenticulas (see edit history)

"Yog-Sothoth knows the gate. Yog-Sothoth is the gate. Yog-Sothoth is the key and guardian of the gate. Past, present, future, all are one in Yog-Sothoth."

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7 hours ago, Yuyuko said:

Like people do that. they rather camp and you use as a bait to farm their damage. :)

I'm quite sure you are joking, but I find that most GlOps players can and do (or at least try to) PTFO, especially those in MBTs. Snipers are another story, but many of those vehicles cannot be expected to brawl/CQB.

If they are:

  • Accurate (hitting shots, dealing damage)
  • Efficient (positioned well, conscious of objectives/surroundings)
  • Adaptive (capping, resetting or even brawling when required, even if they die in the process)

Then I have no issues with their play.

My gripes are with players sniping in vehicles which should not be sniping and/or snipers which are selfish and ignorant of their team's situation.

3 hours ago, TeyKey1 said:

Ghostfield GLOPS:

mdqA5iY.jpg

By all accounts, this appears to be a rather convincing victory (unless someone from your team pulled off another stupid bomber). 

  • Significantly more kills by your team
  • Far more damage done and assist damage by friendlies
  • More capture points

Considering this is Ghostfield, it looks as if both teams were able to capture one point respectively during the first two phases, but the enemy team suffered more casualties in the process. Your teams [slight] capture point advantage should have come during the final phase, where both caps were secured by friendlies before the enemy could react. Ultimately, much of the outgoing damage may have been fired during this final phase, as the enemy team were rushing/scrambling to retake cap 5/6.

I commend you for playing the SPHINX smartly and not bum-rushing into your opponents. You are a shining example for many other SPHINX players to follow.

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1 hour ago, Lenticulas said:

i'm probably wrong but it looks like you slaughtered them

We lost this one, however this is really a game that baffles me when looking at the stats.

1 hour ago, Lenticulas said:

You had a mafia guy, 10/10 clan players vs. 8, an extra Type 10 prem, and one from COBET... who mysteriously came second from last, despite 19k dam.... hit some teammates with an airstrike?

Never heard of MAFIA. COBET doesn't really impress me with their usual performance but yes this one probably killed someone in an airstrike. 

23 minutes ago, di_duncan said:

By all accounts, this appears to be a rather convincing victory (unless someone from your team pulled off another stupid bomber). 

  • Significantly more kills by your team
  • Far more damage done and assist damage by friendlies
  • More capture points

Considering this is Ghostfield, it looks as if both teams were able to capture one point respectively during the first two phases, but the enemy team suffered more casualties in the process. Your teams [slight] capture point advantage should have come during the final phase, where both caps were secured by friendlies before the enemy could react. Ultimately, much of the outgoing damage may have been fired during this final phase, as the enemy team were rushing/scrambling to retake cap 5/6.

While I'd assume the same as you did what happened is quite the contrary. The enemy basically always had a cappoint advantage and in the last phase even both caps. I can't really explain why we earned more GLOPS points than the enemy and I can't explain why we lost this game despite of having dealt nearly 2x the damage and kills the enemy dealt to us. It just seemed like the enemy despite of suffering significant losses was always at the right spot and on time in terms of capping/decapping. Very strange game when looking at the results.

27 minutes ago, di_duncan said:

I commend you for playing the SPHINX smartly and not bum-rushing into your opponents. You are a shining example for many other SPHINX players to follow.

The SPHINX is my go-to carry vehicle for GLOPS I lost 5 games in a row in my Leclerc failing to get my daily bonus. So I had to take the SPHINX for a ride to at least have one win. People are really crazy these days in terms of disconnecting and non teamplay. Guess/hope it's just a sideeffect of the BP. Left me at a outrageous 25% winrate for the day :tomatotardk:


Spoiler

fdassdaas.jpg.c709df3e98adc5265f232fe9458a3043.jpg

 

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21 minutes ago, TeyKey1 said:

Never heard of MAFIA. COBET doesn't really impress me

I think mafia used to be really good back in the stone age. COBET seem to be individually good, but fortunately they don't inevitably come in 3s like the A1arM people.

so I think we are seeing that the dam points, & the glops points DO NOT accurately reflect anything. Ie you can score more glops points and still get fewer actual 'Reduce The Enemy's Winning Points' .

Edited by Lenticulas (see edit history)

"Yog-Sothoth knows the gate. Yog-Sothoth is the gate. Yog-Sothoth is the key and guardian of the gate. Past, present, future, all are one in Yog-Sothoth."

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Surprising result to say the least. Some clarity in terms of the [behind the scenes] calculations and statistics of AW would definitely be helpful.

3 hours ago, TeyKey1 said:

People are really crazy these days in terms of disconnecting and non teamplay. Guess/hope it's just a sideeffect of the BP.

I would partially blame the obscured aforementioned mechanics/incentives. No one fully understands how or what the game rewards players for. Because damage and assistance are recorded in dossiers and presented in post-game stat sheets, many players selfishly pursue those figures instead of helping their teams.

3 hours ago, TeyKey1 said:

Left me at a outrageous 25% winrate for the day

Ehhh, I've had worse ;(

Edited by di_duncan
Formatting (see edit history)

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OK, I'll post one more (censoring the experience this time around):

1M5Q93Y.jpg

Solo Q GlOps game on Narrows. One three-man platoon on each team, both performing rather poorly (surprisingly). Similar team comp, although they have a 490 and a Type 10, while we have a Wilk, a K2, and an additional T-15. As for notable players, we have Falcrum (COBET) and Vyserk (ex-HYPE, now NASTY) while they have a player from Ardor (str-1).

Perhaps @Norse_Viking and/or @Lenticulas can provide some of their matches for us to guess/discuss? Remember, we aren't judging the outcome, gamemode and/or performance; it's a learning experience, so everything's fair game.

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2 hours ago, di_duncan said:

Solo Q GlOps game on Narrows. One three-man platoon on each team, both performing rather poorly (surprisingly). Similar team comp, although they have a 490 and a Type 10, while we have a Wilk, a K2, and an additional T-15. As for notable players, we have Falcrum (COBET) and Vyserk (ex-HYPE, now NASTY) while they have a player from Ardor (str-1).

Ok I'll give it a crack:
I agree with everything you said: very similar teams, very similar vehicles, nothing that screams "huge advantage". The blue platoon looks like a pick-up platoon, and performed like it, the red platoon: same batallion, not from a batallion i recognise, so who knows. They might have been ok but were dumped down the scoresheet by better guys at the top.
the Ardor guy came top (predictably), glops points similar ....
Best guess: I'd say it was very close, but judging from the blue team's few extra kills and a couple of extra glops points: The blues won by about  ... 250-300 maybe when the timer ran out?

Edited by Lenticulas (see edit history)

"Yog-Sothoth knows the gate. Yog-Sothoth is the gate. Yog-Sothoth is the key and guardian of the gate. Past, present, future, all are one in Yog-Sothoth."

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mystery-game-2.thumb.jpg.146366a41baa817a05eaa70c1a3e1499.jpg

Glops, Narrows (South), taking my new VCAC for a spin .... and generally hiding from the scary Tier10s

 

Edited by Lenticulas (see edit history)

"Yog-Sothoth knows the gate. Yog-Sothoth is the gate. Yog-Sothoth is the key and guardian of the gate. Past, present, future, all are one in Yog-Sothoth."

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8 hours ago, Lenticulas said:

Best guess: I'd say it was very close, but judging from the blue team's few extra kills and a couple of extra glops points: The blues won by about  ... 250-300 maybe when the timer ran out?

Being in a position to guess, I'd be inclined to agree with such a prediction, but that match was surprisingly a loss. While both teams performed similarly during the first phase, the enemy team were able to quickly seize cap 3 (in the east) and take defensive positions. Our team's repeated attempts to capture the point were of no avail.

I output a sizable amount of my total damage during the first phase, as MBTs crossed the river dividing the caps in the west. During the second (final) phase, considering how the opposition were "dug in"/hull down, I positioned myself to create a crossfire as enemy vehicles crossed. This was rather successful, as I did most of my damage from this position.

I vividly recollect farming a poor Merkava who could not spot me. He desperately tried blind-firing at me, but most of his shells (HEAT-MP) missed, with the couple that hit doing minimal damage (hitting my turret/not penetrating my hull). Eventually he tried hiding from me, but his Merkava was too tall and I finished him off with a HEAT-MP salvo of my own. 

Ultimately, inconsistent skill/effort from a number of our MBTs/T-15s meant that we could not recapture point. Eventually the ticket different became insurmountable, and the game ended in a loss.

9 hours ago, Lenticulas said:

mystery-game-2.thumb.jpg.146366a41baa817a05eaa70c1a3e1499.jpg

Glops, Narrows (South), taking my new VCAC for a spin .... and generally hiding from the scary Tier10s

Ignoring the final combined stats of each team but considering the three-man platoon on the enemy team, how few of your teammates actually have capture points and the fact that both teams have tier 8s at the top of the scoresheet, I'm inclined to believe this match was similar to my previous match (we also began in the south).

The cap situation was likely equal until the second phase, when your opponents also seized control of point 3. Despite the PANZR player performing out of his league, your team also suffered from inconsistency and incoordination. Although your team dealt more damage and secured more kills, the cap/ticket disadvantage resulted in a loss. 
 

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On 7/10/2020 at 9:30 PM, di_duncan said:

The cap situation was likely equal until the second phase, when your opponents also seized control of point 3. Despite the PANZR player performing out of his league, your team also suffered from inconsistency and incoordination. Although your team dealt more damage and secured more kills, the cap/ticket disadvantage resulted in a loss. 

I doesnt look like anyone else is going to have a go, so...

Just looking at the teams before the match, ie one has a 3-man-platoon and the other had nothing, I'd say: victory red team, since there weren't any significant clan people I recognised.

Looking at the teams
blues have 13 clan players, red team 10, but they have a platoon...

What actually happened

Spoiler

Oooooh you were close.  

Phase 1: deadlock.

I got in the Cap with the first wave, we took it, they got theirs.  No one got anywhere, I got killed, at the right time to make a move to point 4.

Phase 2:

There were people already fighting over 3 before it spawned.  I was sitting on 4 as it spawned.

I capped 4 alone with maybe one other guy, they got 5 sometime later, as everyone else from both teams, poured into 3. Points still neck and neck. Cap 3 bloodbath ensued, no one got the upper hand.  

I decided: there's enough people on 3, I'll just sit here & Def 4, someone has to.  There were multiple just-in-time bomb runs. still no one takes 3 for more than a few seconds.  The timer was ticking down, and down, and down, we were still... about 100 points ahead.

In about the last minute, the XM1A3 decided to go for my 4 cap, I had a couple of shots at him, couldn't track him on the way.  I looked at the score: we were still microscopically ahead, I decided if he gets me (25 pts) and just sits on the Cap for a few seconds we could lose this, so I ran off, and luckily he decides to chase me and ignore cap 4. I run, dragging him away from cap 4, until I lost him.  

At that point we won.

Red team 0, blue team 46. No one ever got cap 3.

As close as it gets.  2 more dead tanks, or 19 fewer seconds of capping, and we'd have lost it.

 

Edited by Lenticulas (see edit history)
  • Upvote 1

"Yog-Sothoth knows the gate. Yog-Sothoth is the gate. Yog-Sothoth is the key and guardian of the gate. Past, present, future, all are one in Yog-Sothoth."

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