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Pesa_

auto bounce angle got removed from a lot of tanks

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at this point is easier to name what's not broken, than what's broken. 0.33 is a problem itself as we all know. i didn't test every tank in game but im pretty sure there are more of them

leopard 2av

Screenshot_2.jpg

 

wilk

Screenshot_3.jpg

 

k21 xc8

Screenshot_4.jpg

 

leopard 2a5

Screenshot_5.jpg

 

rcr

Screenshot_6.jpg

Edited by Pesa_ (see edit history)

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Can you post the names of the vehicles? It's hard to tell what you are showing sometimes.


Spoiler

 

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Is this a case of auto bounce being removed, or over pen being brought in without patch notes?  

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its auto bounce being removed on some tanks, because i don't think a 40mm can over pen as it shows on the sphinx screenshot. btw i added the names of the tanks, as haswell asked

Edited by Pesa_ (see edit history)

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In some of the cases, the thickness of the armour plate that is being penetrated is less than half of the gun caliber of the vehicle shooting at it:

  • Wilk (120mm gun): 50mm composite (ignored for overmatch) over 50mm steel plate
  • K21 XC-8 (120mm gun): 59mm steel plate
  • AMX RCR (105mm gun): Aluminum plate equal to 25mm steel plate
  • SPHINX (40mm gun): 19mm steel plate


However, this is not the case for the other vehicles:

  • Leo 2AV (105/120mm gun): 55mm steel plate
  • Leo 2A5 (120mm gun): 80mm steel plate
  • PL-01(120mm gun): 74mm steel plate


I'm honestly not sure what's going on here, however I suspect it's a bug with the armour viewer as I have noticed a few inconsistencies with the new armour models both in the armour viewer and between the armour viewer and gameplay environment.

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i dont think the game had overmatch mechanic, before 0.33 rcr had an auto bounce plate no matter the caliber, same for every other tank, so i think its a case of both auto bounce angle being removed and overmatch mechanic being added, idk if the latter was intentional since not every tank is affected

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If they removed some auto-bounce armor or magic armor material, then it is fine. I still think a lot of MBT upper armor of turrets or engine decks has excessive armor, which you even now cannot pen. I hated rcr armor for how it could bounce "because".

From my perspective, the first 0.33 factor is that angle itself doesn't reduce pen value at same degree as before, second - impact of randomization (WoT style) was reworked. Third - close combat MBT gameplay allows to have max pen value most of time. I don't suripse the game allows now penetrate things even with high angling. 

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Looking at the model for the M1128 MGS, I am beginning to suspect that an overmatch mechanic has been added to the game.

Consider the following images, where 105mm M900 APFSDS (rated at over 600mm of penetration at 700m in-game) tries to penetrate the M1128 from different angles:

Side armour without side skirts or ERA at extreme angle from the frontScreenShot0021.thumb.jpg.f85b302b530469348e21d6459e0ad26d.jpg

The same spot from a different angle to show the raw thickness of the armour (~58mm)ScreenShot0022.thumb.jpg.bca0cadf49c7ec860ac0083bdb505b3d.jpg

The sloped frontal armour from the side at extreme angleScreenShot0019.thumb.jpg.dcbe284ad0825af80f23339d85ef8435.jpg

The same spot from a different angle to show the raw thickness of the armour (~20mm))ScreenShot0020.thumb.jpg.b3580bcb88efe34836d6e3bbb3ce8f87.jpg

The roof armour from the rear at extreme angleScreenShot0016.thumb.jpg.fe4db87161ea47120a845537c461227e.jpg

The same spot from a different angle to show the raw thickness of the armour (~71mm)ScreenShot0017.thumb.jpg.47a419b695dbebec92e02289eb218af0.jpg

 

In each case the M900 APFSDS has more than enough penetration to pass clean through the armour regardless of angle. The APFSDS can still ricochet if it impacts at extreme angles, but this only seems to occur on armour that is above some threshold of armour thickness. As such, I suspect that some form of armour overmatch mechanic was added to the game unannounced and is the reason for the missing auto-bounces that OP is experiencing.

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here im using stock 30mm ammo from the stalker. its not overpen or overmatch, its just that the auto bounce angle is missing

download.png

Edited by Pesa_ (see edit history)

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Yeah, that one is a bug. If you look at the Evo/Revo armour model and look at the rear section of the side armour, it is 80mm raw thickness and does not seem to gain any effectiveness from angling against any shot in the game.

If someone could test this in the proving grounds or custom match, it would be very helpful.


Edit: can confirm that this occurs on the Evo in proving grounds, I managed to pen the rear side armour at an angle of over 85 degrees (I had to hunt for pixels to find the spot I could pen, but I could pen it)

With the Type 99:ScreenShot0023.thumb.jpg.88553ba9b159c4ca8254780c78c1aea6.jpg

ScreenShot0024.thumb.jpg.ea81ad9655eff818323e7acd98fca990.jpg

With the Ramka:ScreenShot0025.thumb.jpg.7023fe4cb46f626f3b3186ad60870be8.jpg

Notice the tracers from the AP shots ricocheting off the side armour after they penetrated and did full damage....

Edited by MK_Regular (see edit history)
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I'm getting the sense that they didn't reduce side armor...they entirely fucked the armor mechanics.  Not even in the nice "buy you dinner first" this is taking it down a dark ally and smacking it with a pipe around the back of the head while it wasn't looking.

Out of interest, have you checked if this mechanic also effects the t-14?  I've noticed that the AS21 can't pen it on the side like it can on all the other MBTs of that tier, so I'm wondering if they left all other tanks borked, but made sure armor is correct on the Russian lines.

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Just wondering about this - https://aw.my.games/en/news/general/development-upcoming-shell-changes

Theredqueen posted a small extract from it and it got me thinking - over match mechanics have been in the game a while, since .21, and now armor make up and amount has changed.  Is it a case where an old mechanic is now fucking over the latest changes?  Side of MBT's is now thin steel so maybe it is working as the system thinks it should be, but it's not working as actually intended?

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could be, but as we see this problem is not a big deal for devs, my post got ignored and we heard nothing from them about this problem. not like it breaks a good portion of tanks am i right?

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On 10/26/2020 at 10:54 AM, Azdule said:

Just wondering about this - https://aw.my.games/en/news/general/development-upcoming-shell-changes

Theredqueen posted a small extract from it and it got me thinking - over match mechanics have been in the game a while, since .21, and now armor make up and amount has changed.  Is it a case where an old mechanic is now fucking over the latest changes?  Side of MBT's is now thin steel so maybe it is working as the system thinks it should be, but it's not working as actually intended?

The problem is that it doesn't seem to be working consistently. Some vehicles end up having their armour overmatched, while other vehicles with the same (or sometimes even less) armour thickness don't.

From the players' perspective it's strange, unexpected, and probably requires a bit of dev attention to verify that it is (or isn't) working as intended.

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Something is definitely fuckie - this is the Leo 2ax standard AP round.  It can pen 1364mm of armor as it's shooting into the grills, but if you move down 1mm or so, it can no longer pen 1200mm.  

 

unknown.png?width=972&height=547

unknown.png?width=972&height=547

 

My current thoughts are that for some reason, it rear half of the tank is showing as steel, but has the make up of something else as it's counting the grills as the make up of the rear half of the tank.

Tier 8 Leo (please ignore queue timer)

image.thumb.png.38c7f87c6fca392bc8aa9b4900b5146f.png

But if you increase the angle you lose protection? 

image.thumb.png.0a2909af88e213ac34412ec6c508bbeb.png

 

 

 

 

 

Can't post further picture atm but all tanks have like a 3 stage of armor (Armor map) thickest at the front sections, going to weakest at the back, but none of them have such a dramatic loss of protection.  I can only assume that there is an armor 'map' from the back that takes whatever the grills are made of (aluminium?) and the puts that entire section as that same thing.  While it shows as steel, it's not acting like it should!  The tier 8 merk has the same thickness armor as the leo, but doesn't get penned!

 

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im still waiting for an official response, but for a major game breaking bug like this, the amount of time passed without answer suggest that they dont really care

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