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Haswell

Zero to Heroics: An Experience in Complete Free2Play

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Having not much left to grind or achieve on my main account, I'm now bored and require distractions. So why not try to grind up a brand new account into heroic material? It would also give me a chance to experience just how badly the economy is skewed toward players who are already filthy rich, and perhaps to suffer just like all the pubbies do without commander skills and whatnot.

In any case I'm going to document my journey from zero to hero every step of the way, so older players can experience the suffering of newbies, and new players can also read this to avoid any newbie traps.

This pet project will be completely free2play and probably more destitute than normal.

  • no premium time
  • no insignias
  • no boosters
  • no opening boxes (including contract stuff)
  • no daily login rewards
  • no premium vehicles
  • no gold usage
  • no freebies from the store

In short, I'm going to torture myself in the name of bad science. So here I go... Please welcome dima99ru, who will masquerade as a Russian pubbie.

ly0T62m.jpg
This is so depressing compared to my main account.

 


My plan right now is to go straight up the T-90 line so I can get both the the 90A and Ramka, then the 90MS and Termi 2 for tokens and eventually the T-15 and T-14/ATDU. By skipping down to the through the T-90 to Ramka I can potentially save myself a good chunk of time since I won't have to grind up a whole new line.

TAIdz0b.png

T-15 is good for pretty much everything so that's my goal for now. I'm opting for the 90A instead of the Ramka for now because I'm pretty sure I won't have enough free XP to get to the AP shells for the Ramka, and I don't want to suffer through HE-only. 90MS vs Termi 2 is still a toss up, both are good and I'll probably worry about it later.

 

 

Here it goes... questions, comments and advice are welcomed!

Edited by Haswell
NO GOLD USAGE (see edit history)

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I'm curious on how this turns out. I'm sure it will be a rather tough grind. As a more or less "rich" player I literally never ran into the problems you'll likely encounter.

Keep us posted :sealofapproval:


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fdassdaas.jpg.c709df3e98adc5265f232fe9458a3043.jpg

 

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Probably to use the daily rewards and all you can get by playing, but not spending real money in the game, so getting the few boxes a low tier player can get ans having basically a single premium time day each week would mimic batter the condition of a player that has to start from scrap now, without a wallet filled enough to let him speed the grind using real money. Thing that is actually true for some players from not rich countries. Anyway it is your challenge, if you feel to torture yourself to the extent of not using what the game gives for free to anybody there is nothing wrong, but i suppose that this will be an hard grind.

The Russian line you choose is solid, but when i did grind the ramka i played a lot of matches with only HE for the auto cannon, it is one of the tanks that i had grind without using reputation, and is not so terrible, you have to be more careful about where you aim and you have to use the AC only on some targets, using the missiles for the well armored ones, but at least in PvE it is not a problem as you often have to face more bots at once and hopefully they are not all well armored MBTs. I remember that even after unlocking the AP rounds i used to have about 1/3 of HE as it was, and maybe is still today, more damaging on the targets that it can hit. Nowadays i load only AP so i am not sure that it is still true, but i remember that at that time there was few tanks that was immune to AP while not to HE, if aimed at the right spots.

At your place I would be tempted to push the Ramka before the T90MS and then to get the T249 that on some maps can perform really well and possibly earn even more then the T14, even at a tier lower, as it can pull easily matches when you get let's say 30K damage and 25k spotting damage. This for an average not too bad player, for a player that is able to get similar results on a regular basis with the T14 probably the T249 can do even better, but I am not one of those players so i can not tell it for sure. I am also biased towards the AFV class and towards the tanks that rely on camo, good mobility and massive sustained damage, I like to play them more and I get better results with them, I can play an MBT, but I am not a very good MBT player.

Also I have pushed a single line as i begun, even if mine was an AFV one, but to loose completely the first battle multiplier for the other tanks, unless your experiment is only to grind a single line and you don't want to really have a secondary account with a real choice of tanks, is not worth. To grind without premium time is slow enough and playing at least the battle with multiplier for some more lines can be worth it, if you push let's say other 3 lines takes less then half hour to play those 3 missions/day. The Israeli line is interesting for this as up to a certain tier you get double XP, so 4x for the first battle, so is very fast to grind even without premium time.

There are also other very good lines, but as you know the game and the tanks as least as me, probably better, there is no sense in me suggesting which ones...

:snrk:

My suggestion is only to play the first game for at least 3 or 4 lines then focus for the rest of the time you play that account on the Russian one, When you will have done with it you will find those lines with some degree of development. Without premium time the credits are the main issue grinding at low tiers, as the fixed costs of a mission cut a part of your earning, but when you will have tanks like the Ramka or the T15 credits to buy low tier tanks will be no more an issue, but xp wise playing the first battle of the day really doubles the effectiveness of your playing time, as you can not transfer the xp gotten at higher tiers unlike the credits (ok there is the reputation, but is very low compared to the real xp you get in the battle) and there is no cut as the missions have not an xp cost.

I am very interested in your experiment as I really think that to grind in this game without spending money or have an inheritance from the old times when we had free boxes, premium time and better mission rewards is a really gigantic task, that can take years even for a good player.

By the way I have some friends and Battalion mates that have secondary accounts, we find them useful in some situations, like when we want to grind achievements in Spec Ops and we are only 4 in the platoon, much better to have an idle secondary account then a random player that maybe does not care at all to the achievement and make it impossible to get.

I wish you good luck in your new grind my friend!

:winkseal:

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I played 12 games so far and I want to kill myself already.

 

Having to worry about credits is an awful feeling. I had to choose between using food/gas/rebuild kits, buying modules for vehicles that I'll likely never play again after I ground through them, and saving up for my next vehicle purchase. 12.5k for using rebuild kits isn't expensive, but every time I use them it's 12.5k more that I have to grind up. I'm lucky that there's a +50% credit bonus going on right now, otherwise I might actually lose credits at tiers 1-2 because standard PvE is absolutely horrible in terms of payouts.

b3ELCq9.jpg
Imagine being so poor you can't afford rebuild kits.


I also made a mistake by going down the PT-85 and T-62. Since the T-72 costs nearly 2 million credits (WTF!), the T-62 being a tier 3 is simply awful at grinding credits even with the ongoing special. I decided to switch to the Type 62 > Type 69 > Type 80-II line instead since they also lead to the T-72 (surprise!), and the 80-II is a whole lot better than the T-62 at grinding credits for two reasons: it's a tier 4, and it's actually a good tier 4.

T1Ps4Kx.png
I actually completely forgot about cross-dealer unlocks. Don't be like me.


Speaking of things I forgot, I realized I could get free credits simply by buying a crap ton of vehicles and playing them occasionally. These vehicle collection achievements are actually a great source of credit income early on, so buying up all the tier 2s and 3s I could afford is definitely a good idea. The vehicle ownership XP bonus also helps as well.

LiUT0ap.jpg
Seriously, don't ignore these free credits.


I also accidentally completed my daily contract missions, kill 1 enemy crew member and tag 10 bots for 10 matches. Those two also gave me a nice credit bonus, but I probably won't be chasing after them if they get too annoying.

In terms of actual gameplay, I'm planning on using Washington exclusively for the foreseeable future. Module damage is always good no matter what I'm playing, and MBTs just don't really benefit much from the old commanders in general. Plus she came unlocked by default, and my only other alternatives are Holzklau (who just suck) and Kirsanov who I unlocked at tier 2. I really don't plan on taking damage, so the main benefit of Kirsanov, faster reload when after taking damage, is effectively useless.

The lack of HEAT shells at stock on every vehicle I've played so far is simply dreadful. I cannot stress enough just how much more damage I can dump out simply by switching from AP to HEAT, even when I'm being matched with higher tiered pubbies. Time to kill (TTK) is an extremely important aspect in combat, merely having high DPM isn't enough when engagements typically never take longer than 30 seconds, which isn't enough time for your DPM to ramp up before your target is dead. TTK matters, as is burst alpha damage. The extra damage with HEAT allows me to comfortably destroy targets with less shots and far less time than it takes with AP.

Also equally important is how to best take advantage of my first win bonuses. All the maps have different payouts, and since the first win bonuses are multipliers to the payouts I took full advantage of knowing the map rotations and cherrypicked the maps that I played on. Wasting the first win bonus on maps with garbage payouts like Hydra and Ricochet will hamper your progress significantly in the long run because you lose so much XP, so pick the good maps to play on at least for the first wins.

1y071Ap.jpg
I am shameless, I know.


Other random thoughts that crossed my mind while I was suffering:

  • Gun handling at low tiers is awful. Type 69 has a 2.65 aim time and 0.19 spread with HEAT, good lord.
  • The quality of pubbies are terrible, I'm still performing way better than they do despite being gimped.
  • Gameplay tips that keep popping up in the middle of the screen are so bloody annoying, and I can't turn them off.
  • I wish I can get free camo without grinding up the Magach line.
  • Food, food, food. Always run food if I have a human loader unless I'm playing something that burns easily like Merkavas.
  • The +50% credit bonus and x3 first win are great, but I wish they weren't there so I can get a more normal experience.

 

12 games in, got my Type 80-II, now I need a break.


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I am not sure if to use food, even with a human loader, is worth its price. Surely you get more xp, but as the credit earning is very low there possibly you pay more then what you get in return. The dpm rises, but marginally and you have the food price, and likely also the rebuild kit's one playing MBTs that at low tier have not a good armor, are a big cut to your credits income.

When i was grinding the low tiers, even if then the meta was different, you got better rewards and you could also improve greatly aim time and accuracy, with some tanks getting almost a laser beam one, i found out that using the consumables but the one that reloaded the ammo and gave only a little hp back was not worth it, at now taht no longer exist i would probably use the rebuild kit or maybe just die and respawn as it cost very little money at those tiers. I had to play in a little more cautious way and sometimes i died without having the chance to respawn, but even there if i played well the reward/minutes played was better and i could get a new battle faster.

But is true that at that time I was still learning how to play, as AW is the first game of this kind that I play and i did not play much video games as a teenager or later so i had to build my skills starting from 0. Maybe being already a good player it is easier to pay the cost of consumables with a better performance, even if i doubt it, i am still convinced that to die and respawn instead of using the kit and to not use other consumables you have to pay for, like food or the one to repair the tank 3 times, gives overall better credits earning at those tiers.

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3 hours ago, BumbaX said:

the few boxes a low tier player can get ans having basically a single premium time day each week

I reckon a lot of casual players aren't really that invested in the game yet, so they won't bother playing every day and just forget about the daily login rewards. That's something I want to reflect in my grind, it may not be realistic but it will definitely make my suffering more entertaining.

3 hours ago, BumbaX said:

At your place I would be tempted to push the Ramka before the T90MS and then to get the T249 that on some maps can perform really well and possibly earn even more then the T14, even at a tier lower, as it can pull easily matches when you get let's say 30K damage and 25k spotting damage. This for an average not too bad player, for a player that is able to get similar results on a regular basis with the T14 probably the T249 can do even better, but I am not one of those players so i can not tell it for sure. I am also biased towards the AFV class and towards the tanks that rely on camo, good mobility and massive sustained damage, I like to play them more and I get better results with them, I can play an MBT, but I am not a very good MBT player.

The problem with the T249 is that it's stupid expensive. I think it costs 23 million, which is more than a tier 10 already and will set me back a lot in terms of saving up to tier 10. As much as I enjoy playing it on my main account, I probably won't be able to afford it here until I start running heroics regularly with the 90MS at the very least. But that's still a long way away, I'll worry about it again when I get there.

4 hours ago, BumbaX said:

Also I have pushed a single line as i begun, even if mine was an AFV one, but to loose completely the first battle multiplier for the other tanks, unless your experiment is only to grind a single line and you don't want to really have a secondary account with a real choice of tanks, is not worth. To grind without premium time is slow enough and playing at least the battle with multiplier for some more lines can be worth it, if you push let's say other 3 lines takes less then half hour to play those 3 missions/day. The Israeli line is interesting for this as up to a certain tier you get double XP, so 4x for the first battle, so is very fast to grind even without premium time.

I first thought about going up the Israeli line as well, the extra XP at the lower tiers will really boost my progress. But then I realized I'll basically be locked into the Merk 4 when I start running heroics, and the Merk 4 is just meh at that. That said, I think I might grind up the Magach line at the very least for the free camos.

4 hours ago, BumbaX said:

My suggestion is only to play the first game for at least 3 or 4 lines then focus for the rest of the time you play that account on the Russian one, When you will have done with it you will find those lines with some degree of development. Without premium time the credits are the main issue grinding at low tiers, as the fixed costs of a mission cut a part of your earning, but when you will have tanks like the Ramka or the T15 credits to buy low tier tanks will be no more an issue, but xp wise playing the first battle of the day really doubles the effectiveness of your playing time, as you can not transfer the xp gotten at higher tiers unlike the credits (ok there is the reputation, but is very low compared to the real xp you get in the battle) and there is no cut as the missions have not an xp cost.

Credit income will definitely be a big issue for me, but I'm hoping it wouldn't be too bad if I run spec ops regularly for those credit boosts every week. In terms of XP I'm definitely going to maximize my daily first wins, not only because it's more efficient but I also might go crazy if I have to play too many games in a limited selection of vehicles.

49 minutes ago, BumbaX said:

I am not sure if to use food, even with a human loader, is worth its price. Surely you get more xp, but as the credit earning is very low there possibly you pay more then what you get in return. The dpm rises, but marginally and you have the food price, and likely also the rebuild kit's one playing MBTs that at low tier have not a good armor, are a big cut to your credits income.

When i was grinding the low tiers, even if then the meta was different, you got better rewards and you could also improve greatly aim time and accuracy, with some tanks getting almost a laser beam one, i found out that using the consumables but the one that reloaded the ammo and gave only a little hp back was not worth it, at now taht no longer exist i would probably use the rebuild kit or maybe just die and respawn as it cost very little money at those tiers. I had to play in a little more cautious way and sometimes i died without having the chance to respawn, but even there if i played well the reward/minutes played was better and i could get a new battle faster.

But is true that at that time I was still learning how to play, as AW is the first game of this kind that I play and i did not play much video games as a teenager or later so i had to build my skills starting from 0. Maybe being already a good player it is easier to pay the cost of consumables with a better performance, even if i doubt it, i am still convinced that to die and respawn instead of using the kit and to not use other consumables you have to pay for, like food or the one to repair the tank 3 times, gives overall better credits earning at those tiers.

I'm definitely suiciding a lot in order to respawn and save myself the rebuild kit costs, it's just not worth spending 12.5k for a rebuild kit when I can respawn for less than 5k at low tiers. I still keep the kit equipped in case I do need to use it in order to win a game, but so far I'm not really using it much.

Food and gas are definitely cutting into my credit income, but I'm so used to using them already it feels unnatural to not have the extra buffs. I do agree that the tiny bit of extra performance I get from food probably isn't worth the cost, I'll have to make a note to get used to not using them.


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I took Bumba's advice today and started going down the Magach line, in order to have a bit more variety in my life. I completely forgot about Kramer being unlockable through the Tiran, so I'll be using her instead of Washington for that proxy reload buff. Washington is now relegated to vision control in squishies, but since I still don't have free camo unlocked from the Magach line I'm at a severe disadvantage. I probably won't be playing squishies too much because of that, until I can get my +5% camo.

Current crew skills:

SxNdXVY.jpg

RzxuAqx.jpg

 

I also stopped using food and gas because they simply put too much of a dent in my credit income. Rebuild kit is still mandatory for me at tier 3 and above, because sometimes I simply have to stay alive in order to carry pubbies. Suiciding and tactical respawns are still a crucial part of my gameplay however, because I'm so desperately poor and need to start saving up for the T-72.

I will probably pick up the Magach 5 and random tier 4s here and there before getting to the T-72 though, because I might lose my mind if I have to grind out over a million in the 80-II only. Magach 5 and AMX-30 are great tier 4s as well, though it might get a bit pricey for me if I buy too many of them. Anyone got any suggestions on which tier 4s I should invest in?

EQRo0RR.jpg

8% to the T-72, I'll get there in 2 weeks maybe.

 

 

In other news, it's nearly impossible for me to play in any sort of respectable capacity when I get 900ms ping spikes every few minutes. I wonder if pubbies play badly not only because of their lack of skill, but also because of hardware limitations (high ping, low framerates). If I can't play well with high ping, neither could they.

VUCN08c.png

Kill me please.

 


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Equipping a rebuild kit does not cut your money income as long as you don't use it, while food and oil are a cut for every mission, as long as you use it only if is really worth it, that is when you are the only survivor and you have a chance to carry the battle alone and win, other way is better to respawn od just loose the mission and get faster a new one.

Imo Erin should have been a progression commander or at least Sabrina should have the camo skills grouped in one place, there are not other real alternatives to them as AFV commanders, at least played in the intended way and not with Ophelia, that is also a premium commander, and a suicide attitude. If so many new players play so badly the AFV class and somehow also the LTs is also because of it, they build from the beginning a wrong attitude as they lack of the right commander to really use the camo of those classes and end in using them as long distance snipers thanks to their high dpm. But you can have Sabrina with all the camo skills with only 5 promotions, with 7 she has also all the spotting bonuses, even if is probably not the best build for the future i suggest you to go that route for the next 4 promotions, at least you will have a good commander when you want to have camo. And try to have a camo for each environment as soon as possible.

As camo means nothing if you don't have vision range is worth it also, passed the lowest tiers, to equip each line of AFV you play with some retros, i would suggest the better one for view on the move and the cheap one for the static one. It will mean to lose 25% of their value each time you unlock a new tank in the line, but it will really speed up your grind trough the line as you will get tons more of spots and spotting damage, that hopefully will also pay their price in the long run. having a spot on the move retro also on the other classes seems also to pay a lot in PvE, I have it on most of my MBTs and in many situations I am the one that spots and get rewarded for it even if other MBTs are almost as far as me from the enemy. Starting with the cheap one and upgrading to the better one as soon as you are rich enough and play tanks of enough tier to pay for it is an option i suggest to you. Better view range is more survival, as you don't get perma tracked by invisible bots, more credits income and more speed in grinding the tank.

About grinding I also suggest you to don't buy some upgrades if they are not really useful, all you need to progress the grind is to unlock them, for MBTs i used to buy the smoke upgrade as soon as possible, 2 smoke rounds in a mission is not enough, then i pushed to unlock HEAT as soon as possible as HEAT at low tiers is the thing that really do damage.

About the ping spikes i also experience them, but only some days, on average my connection is pretty decent. They really make difficult to play, you can not reliably shot at tanks that are moving and I hate when i want my tank popping just a little from the cover to take a shot and i have it moving forward many meters, sometimes for a couple of seconds, and receiving a lot of hits from the red bots. To disable every other task for the internet connection, disabling automatic updates for the cell phone if it is connected to the home wifi network, and close all the other computer programs that may use the net seems to be a little help for me in those evenings, but is certainly not the solution.

 

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Small update: credit grinding is boring, the economy is really harsh towards low tiers even with the ongoing credit bonus. Had it not for the bonus I'd probably only barely breakeven or sometimes even lose credits in matches if I use the rebuild kit, or respawn too many times.

On the plus side, I finished up all my tiers 1-2 vehicles, so I can focus solely on hardcore missions from now on. The credit payout difference between standard and hardcore missions is simply massive, I'm essentially doubling my payouts simply by playing hardcore missions. That said, it's pretty difficult to carry teams of mostly 4s and 5s when I'm in a puny tier 3, armor is nearly meaningless against all the missile spam.

Also, fuck Yorks.

 

On 4/12/2020 at 3:25 AM, BumbaX said:

that is when you are the only survivor and you have a chance to carry the battle alone and win, other way is better to respawn od just loose the mission and get faster a new one.

Since I usually cherrypick my maps, it's usually not too bad that I can't solocarry. I actually lose credits in matches that I lose and respawned twice, so I'm really not that keen on throwing games just to jump into another one. Quality over quantity here.

On 4/12/2020 at 3:25 AM, BumbaX said:

Erin should have been a progression commander

This, I agree with so much. Her vision control capabilities are unmatched in the whole game, nobody even comes close to her usefulness when it comes to staying unspotted which is a crucial part of playing squishy vehicles well. It's definitely a massive roadblock for anyone trying to play the vision control game without her even at low tiers, never mind the fact that it gets harder to do so at high tiers.

If she has to stay as a premium commander, then a progression commander with similar capabilities should be added for the sake of free2play parity. As it stands she's practically the poster child of pay2win for vision control right now by virtue of having no equal.

On 4/12/2020 at 3:25 AM, BumbaX said:

As camo means nothing if you don't have vision range is worth it also, passed the lowest tiers, to equip each line of AFV you play with some retros,

I'll definitely start using v1 retros once I hit tier 5-6, since even 200k is a lot for me right now when I'm trying to save up 2 million for the T-72. I won't lie, my difference in performance with and without retros are definitely showing here, I'm practically blind in tiers 3-4 without the extra view range they offer.

On 4/12/2020 at 3:25 AM, BumbaX said:

About grinding I also suggest you to don't buy some upgrades if they are not really useful, all you need to progress the grind is to unlock them

I'm skipping smoke and some useless gunnery upgrades like max spread, they just aren't useful enough for me to justify spending my credits, and I don't plan on playing tiers 3-4 any longer than I have to. I realize I'm not saving too much by skipping upgrades, but every little bit helps here when I'm still poor.

 


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I got the T-72, yay! I'm also broke.

iDsictC.jpg

 

Having to grind credits at tier 4 is an interesting experience, to say the least. The biggest frustration I've had so far is the utter lack of view range at low tiers, leading to plenty of WTF moments when I get shot at by unspotted bots. I'm so used to being able to spot everything, now that I can't do it anymore the experience is actually fairly painful. I have developed a newfound fear of pushing into certain map locations, because I know I will be spotted by Swingfires and Wiesels and other missile slinging bots waiting to delete me. Making matters worse is that many low tier MBTs are absolutely horrible in terms of mobility, I simply cannot close the distance fast enough to spot some bots without risking most of my HP.

folXc2i.jpg

For comparison, the 490 has 27 deg/s hull traverse.

 

I've also had the unfortunate experience of matching up against Yorks and DCAs on a regular basis. This frustration come in two parts: the fact that their damage output is so obscene I can't even hope to compete in an MBT, and the fact that they are able to deal so much damage by themselves leaving me with little to nothing. The first part is something that dents my ego, no big deal. The second part however cuts severely into my payouts in both credits and XP, which makes my grind even longer than it already is. Being a good player only carries me so far when I have to compete against something that is both more mobile and have far higher damage output than I do. To make matters even worse however, is that people know just how good the York and DCA are, and they play them all the time so my progress is quite literally limited by how often do I bump into them. If even I am frustrated by all this, imagine how new players would feel when they get pennies match after match.

3HoVjqj.jpg

Fuck Yorks. Seriously.

 

Anyways, back to the game plan. Now that I have the T-72, I should grind it out and start saving up for the T-72B. Since I need 4 million credits, I think I'll just stick with the T-72 as my only tier 5 because it would cost far too much to buy another one. A tier 5 costs 1.9 million credits, so by the time I play one enough for it to pay itself off I could have already afforded a tier 6. I just have to find ways to not go crazy from playing the T-72 as my primary credit grinder.

I will definitely note that the +50% credit bonus is practically making my grind go twice as fast so far, which is unrealistic for new players if they don't have the luxury of bonuses. They will almost certainly perform worse than I do as well, making their grinds even longer and likely more frustrating.

 

Random thoughts and takeaways:

  • Being blind is awful. View range is important not only for gameplay, but also for payouts because of all the spotting damage you could do.
  • Being slow is awful. Mobility and positioning is key to performing well in PvE, it's extremely difficult to farm damage if you can't get to where the bots are fast enough.
  • Low tiers have absolutely horrendous gun handling, and I can't fix this without retrofits or commander skills. I'll just deal with it I guess.
  • Missile spam isn't too terrible yet since I know where the bot spawns are and how to angle myself, but it's starting to get on my nerves.
  • Pubbies are truly awful at low tiers, either by inexperience or inability. Don't count on them to do anything right.

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"Being blind is awful. View range is important not only for gameplay, but also for payouts because of all the spotting damage you could do."

I already suggested you to buy the binoculars retro and as soon as you can afford it the v2 version. I know that 1.2M credits is a lot with the low tier rewards, but once you do it the cost of passing it to a new tank as you get to it is only 0.3M as you can sell it for 75% of its value and buy it for the tank you begin to grind/use as money maker.

Given the number of battles it needs to get the credits to buy the next tank if you don't use premium time, and it will be more then 50% longer when the credit income bonus will not be there as the fixed costs, like the respawn one, cut part of the income, on the long run I am convinced that you will grind faster credits and xp. In the screenshot you show us i see only 6 spots and 1.7K spotting damage, with it you could have gotten much more, you can not compete vs a dakadaka with the T72 as damage done, but it is not difficult at all to get a big share of spots and spotting damage, sometimes i even rank better then them with my MBTs or low potential damage tanks only because i have that 30 more meters of view range, not vs the ones driven by good players, but a lot of crap ones get good results with them. 

Even in the worst case in that mission you would have probably ranked in the middle, also because you have to be less over cautious if you at least can spot who fires at you, getting about 20% more credits. Do yourself the math, but remember that my suggestions are based on personal experience as i still remember so well when i was grinding trough the low tiers, sometimes without premium time and even now, that i have only to grind some crew of tanks that anyway i don't like much at those tiers and I have more of one year of free premium time to activate sometimes i like to play those tiers only for fun, cause i am bored to play always high tiers, and sometimes I don't activate the premium time when I don't need to really grind something as all the commanders i care of are colonels and i have plenty of credits and enough reputation, so i perfectly see the difference between the low tier tanks with or without binoculars. Thing that you can easily check by yourself using your main account, buy the binoculars for the T72, if you don't already have it, play twice 3 different missions then  unequip it and repeat the same missions, then compare the results, and also and mainly compare the fun you have with it with the constant stress of being blind.

We often forget the the main reason we play (but very few professional players that earn a living playing and probably play other games and not AW) is to have fun, not to grind or the pride of being the best ones, pride of which nobody cares in not a bunch of other very competitive players, it is not like winning a gold medal in the Olympic games...

 

Edited by BumbaX (see edit history)

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I'm definitely going to buy optics and binocs, if I can just afford them in the first place. I'll be honest, I'm already losing motivation because low tier gameplay is just tedious and frustrating. I'm only sitting on 300k credits right now.

Nothing much going on, still trying to grind out my T-72 bit by bit. I did get my first hate mail though.

u5Ad6ew.png

PgdXPE3.png

:wubseal:


Spoiler

 

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On 4/10/2020 at 12:49 PM, Haswell said:
  • no premium time
  • no insignias
  • no boosters
  • no opening boxes (including contract stuff)
  • no daily login rewards
  • no premium vehicles
  • no gold usage
  • no freebies from the store

Here it goes... questions, comments and advice are welcomed!

They (masters of game) changed the economy the way when a prem tank and prem acc each give you +100% to credit earnings, so any other configurations lag in terms of earnings. So my advice - not pursuing or refusing the usage of free premium day from my.games (my.com) is bad idea. Non-stacking of available boosts / insignias with enabled prem account mode once a week is bad idea. There is one 1-day rented premium vehicle from so called weekly "training" reward chest. Challenging for new player, but possible. Non-stacking its use with activated free prem acc is undesirable.

Correct progression plan im my opinion should focus on unlocking Miramon commander and v2 of two optics. Better visual range is free profit (as usual).

Payout for some missions makes it simply not worth to play - due either to highly pre-programmed probable failure, or because mission payment variables are set low. That is the knowledge new player may not have, but he/she should start pay attention too. Also, for pve - when possible and safe for sake of main mission, clear secondaries. 

 

Edited by dfnce (see edit history)

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Probably for the static view optic the v1 is enough as it is 50m instead of 70, 80m instead of 100 stacked with the one that works also on the move. And 300K credits instead of 1.2M is a big difference for who is grinding low tiers, even with premium time, but further more without it. the v1 and v2 configuration needs 1.5M credits to be  started, that is a lot of money, But less then a single T5 tank, and the cost to transfer the retros to the next higher tier tank of the line that is pushed, the "money earner", is only little more then 350K credits, with 10k credits more each mission is only 35 missions, then you begin to gain money.

What should be noticed in the experiment is that if @Haswell has decided to don't use some free features of the game, like the daily login bonuses, at now the whole experiment has been done in an exceptional moment when we have an almost permanent bonus on credits, while the generic Joe that wants to grind without paying in this game, even using the daily bonuses has not that big advantage in normal times.

I remember so well how in the now closed official forums I used to read so often people telling that to grind in this game is so fast, too fast, bragging about how they could grind a tank or farm credits in so fast. They was forgetting that they was sitting on stockpiled high amounts of free insigna, boosts and preimium time, and maybe that they had also many T7+ premium tanks in the garage. If i told in the thread about the Starter Packs that the best RL money investment for a new player that wants to speed his grind is to spend the money in the better medium tier premium tank he can afford, at least T7, if possible T8 (if Marder or Termi even better). That tank, even without premium time, but playing only it in the free premium day of the week is even better, can print for you the money to buy and equip the lower tier tanks in no time. Looking at my saved screenshots a good Marder game on Stormy Winter, that has an average multiplier, without any special credit multiplier gave me 184K credits, that would had been 387K if i would had run premium time, as I probably played very aggressively and i had to respawn a couple of times. In that game i did more then 50% of the total damage, it was 44K, but also got 25/36 spots and more then the 30% of the total spotting damage, that is a monster percentage if you factor in that I was doing more then 50% of the total damage, so I, and my infantry, that did 14K of my 44K damage, was "stealing"" a lot of spotting damage from myself.

And as I am far from being an unicorn I think that similar results can be obtained by many, I probably took the screenshot as I had an unusually high damage from the infantry, not because is was a super game for other reasons. So with a Marder or premium Termi to buy the T-72 needs only to play less then 15 matches in a premium day and less then 30 in a regular one.

Please don't give up with the experiment, maybe you can start to get the daily login bonuses and try as a new player that wants really to grind trough the game, but lacks of the RL money to do it (as maybe is a student in a country that is not particularly rich, where the price of a T8 premium is not the equivalent of an evening with the friends eating pizza and then going in some disco, but is the money some people has to feed the family for the whole month). Those that don't spend money and also don't care about the daily login probably only do a touch an go with this game as they realize that grinding will be a many years lasting pain in the arse for a casual player that plays only few time and maybe not daily. I had an in game friend from Argentina that was a pretty good player, and he was grinding trough the T8 tanks, we meet in the game and for some time played together often, and he was not spending RL money in the game. He told me many times in the platoon chat how he was annoyed by the too long grinding time and suddenly a day disappeared from the game.

 

ScreenShot0188.jpg

13 hours ago, Haswell said:

I'm definitely going to buy optics and binocs, if I can just afford them in the first place. I'll be honest, I'm already losing motivation because low tier gameplay is just tedious and frustrating. I'm only sitting on 300k credits right now.

Nothing much going on, still trying to grind out my T-72 bit by bit. I did get my first hate mail though.

u5Ad6ew.png

PgdXPE3.png

:wubseal:

The very same player invited also me to the second group some times ago, i did not take the screenshot as well as the one of what he had written inside the chat.

If he will do it again i will surely take the screenshots and report him, and i invite you to do the same. I don't know if it will help, there is surely enough to have him permanently banned, as he is spamming those things, but as probably it is only a secondary account he will probably just open an other one and continue.

Edited by BumbaX (see edit history)

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I now have HEAT, ho ho ho! It's nice to be able to finally hit things for 700 damage again.

AJ7vzni.jpg

 

I also took the advice bought v1 optics and binocs for the T-72. Normally I would never dream of putting binocs in MBTs, but I'll make an exception for Dima because I can't really afford anything else. They can also be sold back for 75% of their cost once I'm done with the T-72, so it's not all that bad. I cannot stress enough just how important vision control is especially for lower tiers, not only because I get more spotting damage but also because it lets me not get shot to hell by unspotted bots. 425m/480m view range isn't ideal, but it will be enough to make my life less miserable. I might pick up the v1 filters for more mobility next, when I can actually afford it.

cfTiCE9.jpg

I'm poor again... :c

 

I also just realized that the entire T-series have glaring weakspots on their cupolas. Even though they take reduced damage, autocannons can and will penetrate there all the time and the damage will rack up if I'm not careful. Naturally this also means anything and everything will shoot me there as well, so it's a bit frustrating since it's not something I can reliably hide while being aggressive at the same time. This weakspot doesn't get any better until the T-90A, so I'll just have to work with it somehow.

BsJaw1b.jpg

Yikes.

 

Overall, I'm having a much better time now that my damage output isn't completely garbage, and that I can start playing somewhat aggressively more to my normal playstyle. Grinding up 4 million credits for the T-72B will definitely be a challenge to my patience, I'm hoping to get there before June. Keep in mind that I'm also spending a lot less time on Dima compared to my main, so I'm only playing roughly 4-8 games per session. This also somewhat balances out the perpetual +50% credit bonus since I'll be playing less games than the average new player, and my grind will still take roughly as long.

 

14 hours ago, dfnce said:

They (masters of game) changed the economy the way when a prem tank and prem acc each give you +100% to credit earnings, so any other configurations lag in terms of earnings. So my advice - not pursuing or refusing the usage of free premium day from my.games (my.com) is bad idea. Non-stacking of available boosts / insignias with enabled prem account mode once a week is bad idea. There is one 1-day rented premium vehicle from so called weekly "training" reward chest. Challenging for new player, but possible. Non-stacking its use with activated free prem acc is undesirable.

Correct progression plan im my opinion should focus on unlocking Miramon commander and v2 of two optics. Better visual range is free profit (as usual).

Payout for some missions makes it simply not worth to play - due either to highly pre-programmed probable failure, or because mission payment variables are set low. That is the knowledge new player may not have, but he/she should start pay attention too. Also, for pve - when possible and safe for sake of main mission, clear secondaries.

The game's economy is extremely skewed towards premium content, using premium time essentially doubles my payout every game and will make my grind go ridiculously fast. I realized this, that's why I'm intentionally limiting myself to make my progress take about as long as new and inexperienced players. I'm also already cherrypicking my maps to take full advantage of my first win bonuses, which is why limiting myself is even more important here.

Using Miramon isn't a bad idea, but that requires me to take a detour and buy the T-72A. Seeing that it's half as expensive as the T-72B, I'll probably won't be getting him until I'm at tier 8. Kramer is also a decent commander for me already because of her reload buffs, so I don't really NEED Miramon for now.

 

10 hours ago, BumbaX said:

Probably for the static view optic the v1 is enough as it is 50m instead of 70, 80m instead of 100 stacked with the one that works also on the move. And 300K credits instead of 1.2M is a big difference for who is grinding low tiers, even with premium time, but further more without it. the v1 and v2 configuration needs 1.5M credits to be  started, that is a lot of money, But less then a single T5 tank, and the cost to transfer the retros to the next higher tier tank of the line that is pushed, the "money earner", is only little more then 350K credits, with 10k credits more each mission is only 35 missions, then you begin to gain money.

The problem with v2 retros isn't only that they are expensive, but also that I have to go out of my way and grind up other vehicles just to unlock them. v1 retros are good enough for me right now I think, but I'll look into them later on.

10 hours ago, BumbaX said:

What should be noticed in the experiment is that if @Haswell has decided to don't use some free features of the game, like the daily login bonuses, at now the whole experiment has been done in an exceptional moment when we have an almost permanent bonus on credits, while the generic Joe that wants to grind without paying in this game, even using the daily bonuses has not that big advantage in normal times.

The ongoing credit bonus is definitely a huge advantage for me, which is another reason why I'm not playing as many games as I could. The average player will likely play a dozen or so games every day, but I'm only playing half of that so my overall grind takes longer, which is more in line with the time it takes for new players to reach similar progress.

10 hours ago, BumbaX said:

Please don't give up with the experiment, maybe you can start to get the daily login bonuses and try as a new player that wants really to grind trough the game, but lacks of the RL money to do it (as maybe is a student in a country that is not particularly rich, where the price of a T8 premium is not the equivalent of an evening with the friends eating pizza and then going in some disco, but is the money some people has to feed the family for the whole month). Those that don't spend money and also don't care about the daily login probably only do a touch an go with this game as they realize that grinding will be a many years lasting pain in the arse for a casual player that plays only few time and maybe not daily. I had an in game friend from Argentina that was a pretty good player, and he was grinding trough the T8 tanks, we meet in the game and for some time played together often, and he was not spending RL money in the game. He told me many times in the platoon chat how he was annoyed by the too long grinding time and suddenly a day disappeared from the game.

I'm definitely not giving up on it. It has only been a week and I'm already at a phase where I'm somewhat enjoying myself, so it wouldn't be too frustrating for me to go further forward. I also intentionally picked the T-series line to grind because I know they are very capable vehicles all the way, so I won't be suffering as much as new players who don't know anything about the game. It's also fun to relearn the game starting from the beginning, I'm also improving myself as a player by doing this.

Dima is getting a T-15, hopefully before Christmas.


Spoiler

 

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Yes, you can sell your view retros for 75% of the price and my original suggestion is to do it as soon as you have ended the grind of a tank (but not the crew one that takes usually longer) and you have the money to buy the next tank in the line. This way you can equip the new tank with them at the 25% of their cost.

Then when Dima will be rich and will not be so desperately in need of credits you can buy back them, but anyway to grind crews is an issue that comes later, at the beginning to push at least a line to the high tiers and to progress in the other ones are things way more important. IMO the 3rd retro that can speed up the grind is the gun breach, i find it more useful then the mobility ones.

When i was in the initial part of my grind i never sold retros, that at the time had a tier related cost, and I never sold tanks after grinding them and unlocking the next one. Then I did the reset, at that time I had only a couple of T10 and a bunch of T9, and thanks to the reset i could buy some new T10 that before was unlocked without me having enough money to buy them. I also played a lot of time without any retro, prioritizing the purchase of new tanks and of their upgrades, then i slowly begun to equip the high tier ones with retros. The reset was for me a very big help as not only i had a lot of credits to spend, but also a lot of reputation to invest in unlocking new tanks. Probably I should had better sold some tanks that i did not really like and i should have at least equip the tanks of the new lines i was grinding with some retros, to sell them and buy them for the next tank.

I hate to sell something that I know that in the future I will any way buy again, loosing money, but seeing me now, sitting on more then a billion credits that I don't know how to use probably to loose some money selling things with the plan to buying them back loosing 25% of their value would had been better as i could had reached the point where credits are no more an issue sooner.

I think that for who is at the beginning of the grind the next more important thing beyond credits is the reputation management. I suggest to avoid completely to use it for the commanders, and to use it mainly to speed the unlocking of the HEAT rounds when possible, as HEAT use increases so much your damage output. At least if the player plays mainly PvE and at tiers where most of the tanks are not well armored against HEAT (even if also at high tiers, knowing how to use them, are very effective).

By the way i find myself positing a lot on this thread, probably the reason is not so much to help you, as you have all the experience needed to make your choices on your own

:snrk:

but because I believe that to read this thread can really be a lot helpful for who is really at the beginning of the grind of his main account and lacks of an huge amount of real money to invest in the game. Even with the daily login bonuses and buying premium time the grind is very long and some good choices like to buy soon a good T8 premium instead of lower tiers bundles with some insigna and boost, to grind credits and reputation, as well as the right use of the credits and reputation you have can really make the grind less painful.

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Sadly the economy of  the game is what makes me shy away from it now days, feels like an endless grind some days  when idiot players is all i get teamed up with...

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Once you reach Tier 5 vehicles you should spend your fighting time in GLOPS thats where the money and experience is. 

Go for caps for extra dosh and experience. Spotting equipment also help for that spotting bonus. 

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For a novice player that is grinding trough the low and medium tiers to go to GLOPS or the other PvP mode brings some problems.

He has to fight against humans and not stupid AI driven bots, some of those players are more experienced then him, most of them already have high level commanders and possibly some very good premium one, like Cortez for maxed damage, O Connell for superior camo or Ophelia that allows suicide tactics that seems that the present GLOPS meta rewards, as i see them so often. They also can have full grind tanks with lev 4 or 5 crew and possibly high level retrofits. 

Our hypothetical grinding noob friend will have many disadvantages to deal with, further on if in PvE the team will win probably 90% of the missions if not more in PvP, no matter how you are good, you will sit on something like a 50% win rate, if you are good a little more, if you are not a little less, but the time of the skirmish mode, that gave to 3 people in platoon the chance to farm easily wins is long time ended (and I am very happy of that).

It is true that in GLOPS to win and do well is very rewarding, but you win less and not all the players are over the average, so I am not so convinced that the suggestion is useful for everybody, it greatly depends on how a particular player is really willing to learn how to play and gifted at it, then he can probably overcame the other disadvantages with a good playing and be well rewarded the 50% of the matches he wins.

But your suggestion IMO is very good for an other reason, playing PvP you will suffer more, a lot more at the beginning when you are still learning, but you learn much faster and much more. I would say that the better mode to play to really improve is Random Battle, and if you have the luck to play against strong players and are smart enough to play near the good players of your party you learn a lot, GLOPS is a lot more forgiving as you can respawn, but you learn less, still learn how to fight, both tactically, reading the minimap and reacting to how the battle is going and how to act in close combat, when you face an other MBT, when you are flanked and circled by a very mobile enemy or when you have the mobile tank and do the trick yourself. In PvE the point is to understand how a program works, what the bots are scripted to do and when and where they will spawn, then, once you have learned how to play a particular mission you are almost set up to go, and you will improve much slower then in the PvP modes.

So I think that the suggestion to play GLOPS as soon as possible, if you are lucky to live in a place that make possible (time zones and ping problems), to do it you will certainly become a better player doing it and eventually you will also be rewarded if you manage to become an over the average player, one that when the party wins sits on the high side of the ranking in spite that he is probably playing a tank without retros, with a low level commander and a tank that you are still grinding, so not full upgrade and with a low level crew. Even if you don't manage to become so good your PvE playing will anyway get much better, as you had been forced to actually use your brain and polish your skills, so you will any way be more rewarded in it.

EDIT: if the new player has a good, GLOPS wise, T8 premium tank it is surely very good to play GLOPS as soon as possible, even using it to play only PvE speeds so much the grind of the commanders and makes getting credits not an issue for all the low part of the grind, but the money, commander XP and reputation he can get in GLOPS are much superior, as well as the rewards for the Special Operations. Having a T9 or 10 tank that can play Heroic and being in a battalion as there the rewards are massive and every Heroic run is a big improvement in the commander xp and in your credits income, and you can do it every 3 days, even if it counts for the battalion contract only once a week, but to get a T9-10 tank means to participate to the box lottery or to buy the gold to get the T40, in both the cases we are beyond the scope of this whole thread, while a good T8 costs a lot less and potentially can be the only real money a player has to invest in the game, while still making the first part of the grind a lot faster and less painful, with enough credits to buy the progression tanks, to equip them with some retros and some reputation to spend at the beginning of the grind of each tank, ie to unlock fast HEAT and so boost the damage that tank can do.

Edited by BumbaX (see edit history)

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If you live in a good timezone for pvp and glops I would say doing pve only learns you bad habits that will set you back the day you decide to go do pvp or Glops. I see it in my battalion we have a couple of guys that have several thousand if not tenthousands battles of pve and they do battalion specops/heroics without any problem.

But take them to the pvp or glops... they dont know where shoot frontaly, since they are used to tanks spinning arround always showing them a spot they can penetrate. Ofcourse some of them are over 60 years old so that might be a factor :)

But anyway if you do well against players then you own the bots.

And join a battlion, playing alone with randoms can be very frustrating.

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find this kinda funny.  been playing since 2012 and have not spent anything on the game.  still don't have a tier 10.  as a better than average player you are way ahead of the curve even with a re roll.  don't think you will ever be lowest man on damage, kills, spots and assists consistently as I have since signing on lol.   yes I'm in a battalion.  yes I am always going to be supercritical and vocal about my own performance.   may be one day all of this will sink in but it hasn't so far.  keep trying  to help the masses.  you get a thank you for that.

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@Baron_Georg reading  your last post in this thread as well as other posts from you in other threads I begin to suspect that your main problem is exactly to " be supercritical and vocal about my own performance".

It is perfectly possible that your willing to shine and being not capable to do it is actually the main thing that drags you and don't allow you to improve. Not all the minds perform better when frustration and the feeling to have to face something almost impossible are there, for some minds it is the fuel that make them perform better, but for others it is only paralyzing and the very reason why they don't become better.

So try to focus more on the fun of playing instead of the result, the competition against the other players and it is possible that your mind will be less paralyzed and your performance will improve. I am not sure that it is the case for you as I don't know you, but you can give it a try, play some sessions with the attitude to have fun, without even caring of the results, maybe even without opening the team page of the battle results, so you don't know how you have performed compared to the other guys, take some risk, but try to don't overextend yourself, and see what happens. 

Before going to each mission self train your mind, repeat to yourself: "I will do well, I will avoid the stupid errors that I so often do, but the main and important thing is that I will have fun playing and doing my best in the battle, the outcome does not matter at all, as the fun I have is my only and ultimate reward". 

It is possible that you will be surprised by the results when, after boosting your fun and beginning to be really satisfied of what you do in some missions you finally start to look back at the results you had and start to open that team page in the result screen.

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On 4/10/2020 at 12:49 PM, Haswell said:

In short, I'm going to torture myself in the name of bad science. So here I go... Please welcome dima99ru, who will masquerade as a Russian pubbie.

Sheeeeeet, just realized you picked number plate series reserved for state service cars and employees and it is in Moscow region. Rest of Russia must love them.

The numbers you often see on Russian nicknames not represent age or year of birth, but region. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of_Russia

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Smallish update: nothing much going on so far, still grinding credits. I also got yelled at by the game for being too poor, I can't remember the last time I had that problem.

gzmI4x4.jpg

*cries*

Time for a bit of math: I need 4 million credits for the T-72B. Let's be safe and assume I'll get 50k credits per match after respawns and rebuild kits (I usually get higher than that, don't worry). At my current rate, I'll likely be able to afford 4 million in 80 games. I can also sell my v1 optics and binocs for 150k each, so that will save me 6 games. I really don't want to play the T-72 that much... but 80 games isn't a lot in the grand scheme of things. I have 90k XP left to grind, which I should get done within 20 or so games.

One game at a time I guess.

 

On 4/20/2020 at 2:02 AM, BumbaX said:

I think that for who is at the beginning of the grind the next more important thing beyond credits is the reputation management. I suggest to avoid completely to use it for the commanders, and to use it mainly to speed the unlocking of the HEAT rounds when possible, as HEAT use increases so much your damage output. At least if the player plays mainly PvE and at tiers where most of the tanks are not well armored against HEAT (even if also at high tiers, knowing how to use them, are very effective).

I'm definitely making it a priority to get HEAT on every vehicle, the increased damage output is just so useful and makes gameplay a lot less frustrating for me.

 

On 4/20/2020 at 6:03 PM, HalldorKG said:

Sadly the economy of  the game is what makes me shy away from it now days, feels like an endless grind some days  when idiot players is all i get teamed up with...

On 4/20/2020 at 7:17 PM, Travlla said:

The life of a welfare warrior looks painful these days, 

That's why I'm running this casual experiment. My main account already has more credits than I know what to do with them, so it's hard for me to understand virtual poverty until I experience it myself. It also lets me connect with new players better, because now I know how frustrating and boring the grinds really are.

 

On 4/21/2020 at 4:31 PM, Norse_Viking said:

Once you reach Tier 5 vehicles you should spend your fighting time in GLOPS thats where the money and experience is. 

Go for caps for extra dosh and experience. Spotting equipment also help for that spotting bonus. 

I'm not a fan of PvP, so nope. I also don't want to rely on a game mode that I can only play within certain times of the day.

 

On 4/21/2020 at 6:35 PM, Norse_Viking said:

And join a battlion, playing alone with randoms can be very frustrating.

Playing alone isn't the frustrating part, I'm still having considerable success despite playing solo most of the time. It's the repetitiveness that gets to me, since I already know how every map plays out and where I should position myself in each of them. It's boring, and that frustrates me.

 

On 4/24/2020 at 6:04 AM, Baron_Georg said:

as a better than average player you are way ahead of the curve even with a re roll.  don't think you will ever be lowest man on damage, kills, spots and assists consistently as I have since signing on lol. 

Whether or not I'm at the bottom really depends on whether I get Yorks or DCAs for my pubbies, those things are just obscene in terms of damage output that I can't hope to compete with them in my T-72.

 

On 4/24/2020 at 9:11 PM, dfnce said:

Sheeeeeet, just realized you picked number plate series reserved for state service cars and employees and it is in Moscow region. Rest of Russia must love them.

Interesting, so I'm Dima from the Moscow region. I think I messed up a bit by using "ru" instead of "rus" since a lot of pubbies I came across use the RUS suffix, but I don't think most people would notice.

I'm also not getting as many insults and hate mail as I had hoped. What should I do to get that sort of attention? :brokenseal2k:


Spoiler

 

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