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Spyshadow01

The Body Positivity (and AS21) thread.

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This is the AS21 Redback.  It's F A T.  It's also not completely awful.  Here's a quick rundown of what I think of the vehicle, keeping in mind that I almost exclusively play PvE.

Pros:

  • A massive amount of ammo, 2000 rounds in total for the autocannon and 50 questionably-useful top-attack missiles
  • An autocannon that fires fast enough to warrant having 2000 rounds of stowed ammo, provides 20k DPM with PELE on my set up
  • PELE lets you do stupid things like pen MBT engine decks from absurd angles (even protectors!)
  • Mortar squad gets a 2nd mortar (!), AT squad gets one more guy as well
  • It has a high base view-range with modules that increase that view range further.  (my current set up has 530/560m when moving/stationary)
  • Camo loss when firing the autocannon is marginal

Cons:

  • To go along with being F A T it also has relatively poor base camo
  • It's mobility is almost MBT-like, very slow
  • Poor armor, only somewhat resistant to autocannons and nothing beyond that
  • AP pen is medicore (192)
  • Autocannon damage per shot is unimpressive (23 AP, 30 PELE)
  • Top Attack missiles are finicky, and deal less damage to vehicles with unmanned turrets

In practice, this vehicle seems to excel at mid-range engagements where it can hide using terrain and its decent camo when firing.  If you can get some degree of elevation over your targets, that's even better, as the PELE rounds can really tear into the top of the turrets or other such weak spots that normal ammo could not.  The improved infantry squads also give it an edge over other infantry-carrying vehicles (especially if you prefer the mortar), which further augments its already fairly good damage potential.  However, its massive size and lack of armor makes it fairly vulnerable to getting rushed down and spotted.  This also means that maps that tend to force close-range engagements will be tough on the AS21.  I also haven't had much luck trying to reach classic AFV spots like the NE corner of Quarterback or Stormy Winter due to the vehicle's poor mobility and mediocre on-the-move camo, so that's something to keep in mind as well. 

It's also good for making puny tanklets envious of your massive girth.  As pictured here, with my AS21 alongside two tanklets.

ScreenShot0162.thumb.jpg.0cc267c5a81d49a3b0fbbe94c3ce0844.jpg 

Edited by Spyshadow01 (see edit history)

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I think, but at now i had only very few battles in PvE with it, as yesterday I played mainly MBTs with a boost running to level up a commander not suited for AFVs, that your review is on spot, but...

"To go along with being F A T it also has relatively poor base camo" depends on which commander you use, and the commander depends on the role you want to use the tank and somehow also on the map you are playing. With Erin and 2 stacked view retrofits has only slightly worst view range, but if not near to friendly tanks and maybe behind a bush or 2 can still easily out spot every bot that is not a lieutenant, in some optimal situations even them. 

"It's mobility is almost MBT-like, very slow, Poor armor, only somewhat resistant to autocannons and nothing beyond that" True, but if it would also be as fast as a Sphinx or Kornet it would had been truly OP, and to not be resistant to the big calibers is quite normal for a not MBT, at least as AFV , like the Marder or the T5 premium dakadaka we had in the last battle path it can survive the autocannon fire, thing that many other AFVs can not, as long as you attack a Bradley or even a T15 after he has fired the missiles, as he reloads, and maybe if you have some part of the hull behind a rock you can easily outdamage it, while with a CRAB, a Sphinx or a Kornet it would be a suicide. 

"Top Attack missiles are finicky, and deal less damage to vehicles with unmanned turrets" well... I think that it is not a problem of this tank alone, but of all the tanks that share that kind of missiles, you have to wait to lock the target, then to wait that the missile travels a long time, then, if the team mates don't have already killed the enemy firing against some tanks you have a big chance to get only a reduced damage or no damage at all, as you can not aim for weak spots. I would say that the missiles on this tank are, at least in PvE, a very situational weapon, and we have to learn on which tanks is worth to use them, as i found that against the T15 and some MBTs they hit often for full damage, that is certainly not impressive,  but quite reliable and is possible to lock the aiming also in 3rd person view, while the enemy can not fire at you as you are behind an hill ridge. Yesterday i killed a lieutenant MBT that way. And as secondary weapon it is very good to have it, the problem is when this type of missiles is the primary one, like in the Shadow, or like in the other AFV released yesterday, that with the AC can pen only the Bradley back, has an AC that is almost only useful to kill infantry in Spec Ops, as there is no way to pen the sides or butts of most of the well armored tanks and even penetrate many AFVs from the front is not a real option.

It seems to me that the AS21 is a very fun and powerful tank to play, without the cons you are talking about we would had an other OP abomination in need of nerfing, and we had way too much of them lately...

For reference here is the result of my very first PvE game with it, as I did not knew how to use it, i had only a quick trip to Alabino to see what it can pen with both the weapon systems, i surely did not play it in the best possible way, also even if in PvE usually i get more blue stars then the times i rank lower i am far to be a very strong player, i know people that are 10 times better then me in every single mode, so see the result as the one of a semi noob not completely crap player, in a PvE crowded of crap players, like the one that yesterday on Raiding Party, that we lost as we cleared the final cap few seconds too late, was making fun of us, the 2 tanks that was in the cap and that did most of the work, while he camped all the game on a hill near the spawn point and did 600 damage only in the whole game, with a TD that has the potential of doing 30K on that map.

As you see not only i got the share of the lion as kills, but i got good damage and good spotting damage, that is exactly what an AFV should do in PvE, a very good tank, perfectly suited to cover the role is supposed to have.

 

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Edited by BumbaX (see edit history)

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Lucky morning for me today.

I had the weakly mission of killing 3 higher tier enemies in a Random Battle so i told myself, why not? let's give a test to the AS21 in PvP and i entered the queue, first time with this tank.

I went to the Airfield map, got 3 kills, Kornet, MGM and CATTB, so I got my mission, and also got the gold medal, 6K damage and a little spotting damage, pretty good result for me with a tank that i never used before in PvP, as i am not a Random Battle specialist, and when i play that mode only sometimes i rank at the first place, usually when it happens for some strange reason it is in the loosing team, i have far more iron medals then gold ones.

I really like that tank, it can perform well in all the modes without being over powered. And in Random Battle the top down missiles seem to be way more useful then in PvE, where are very situational, even if i got my 3 kills using the AC and PELE i did some good damage also with the missiles.

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Fatback bacon is delicious.

KWheMdO.jpg

 

The PELE rounds are hilarious for digging into roof armors, this gives the Fatback the ability to deal with MBTs frontally provided it has an elevation advantage. This is actually a huge boon, because this lets you hit lots of ammo racks spots that are otherwise inaccessible to AP. Throw in module damage bonuses from commander skills and it becomes incredibly fun.

I still tend to treat the Fatback just like every other squishy though, since its armor is deceptively useless against anything other than autocannons, but this also means the humongous size isn't too big of an issue as long as you're not getting shot at. As mentioned the Fatback has great vision control capabilities in terms raw view range and very low camo loss when firing the gun, so its only real downside is its poor mobility. It's just slow, even if you throw on filters and gas, meaning you have to be able to read the map and reposition far earlier than other squishies.

Double mortars are fun, it's actually arguable now whether it's more useful than 5x AT infantry because of the raw DPM increase. On maps where bots tend to stand still the mortars are fantastic, but AT infantry are still more useful if they have good sight lines and positioning. Still, mortars are more useful than AT on certain maps and vice versa, so double mortars are definitely nice.


Spoiler

 

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Even if it will never win a race with a Kornet or a Sphinx on who reach first some good spot on the map i don't feel that it lacks so much of mobility, in the battle I just won i had no problem at all in chasing the CATTB, breaking his engine as he was running away from me and killing him with a good volley of PELE in the back. 

:apseal:

But yes, in PvE i have a lot of fun with the MBTs roofs.

About the infantry, that in that battle i completely forgot to deploy for some reason, i agree with you, the AT Squad can do a lot more damage, my personal record is with the BMP3 M with over 17K damage, in that mission my trusted boys was the best damage dealers after me, doing more damage then every other tank on the battlefield, and I doubt that something similar is possible with the Mortar, even with a double Mortar. But indeed for some maps the Mortar squad is the best choice, it is easy to deploy it in some position where they can not be hit and they do a low, but constant damage, almost ignoring if the enemy is under cover as long as some one spot him.

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2 hours ago, Haswell said:

This is fine. Not even using v2 retros.

T1gt0RJ.png

yeah, as I said, this thing has some intense vision control potential in spite of its deficiencies in speed and camo on-the-move.

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With Douglas, as i have skilled him, it gets a crazy 575 on the move and 675 stopped, and it possible to build Douglas even for a little more sight range then how i did.

675 means that he can spot a 50% camo tank not firing and moving at 337.5m, about half map distance and a MBT that is moving almost in every place he has direct sight to. Surely you loose camo, but for some maps it is anyway crazy, it the right position behind a bush and not too close to where the enemies can be, with an open view field, it can give to the team complete control on what is happening on a large part of a map.

I have never tried that commander on it, as i prefer to configure my squishy tanks for camo and play at closer range, but if i put him on the AS21 those are the values i read.

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On 4/9/2020 at 2:30 PM, Haswell said:

This is fine. Not even using v2 retros.

T1gt0RJ.png

"Dafuq"?!??!

the miracle Upgrade of ... photoshop?

Anyway:

Can anyone suggest some (Glops) retrofits for this thing?, apart from a subscription to WeightWatchers

 

Edited by Lenticulas (see edit history)

"Yog-Sothoth knows the gate. Yog-Sothoth is the gate. Yog-Sothoth is the key and guardian of the gate. Past, present, future, all are one in Yog-Sothoth."

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So for posterity' sake, I'm looking to take this to Heroics after free XPing the Harimau (I'm sorry but the sub 120mm rebalances butchered the 105mm ready rack). How does the AC fare against the rear of the Protectors now? And where exactly do I plant it on Chapter 2 to not die?

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