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https://aw.my.games/en/news/general/realistic-battle-mode-here

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As you already know, on April 1, we generally don’t publish any non-serious content or change the game in a silly way, since we believe this to be a bit of a waste of resources and, quite frankly, given what’s happening in the world currently, few of us are in a joking mood. However, nobody says things can’t get interesting. For this year’s April Fool’s Day, we’ve prepared a special mode called Realistic Battles.

 

This 15 versus 15 PvP mode will allow you to experience Armored Warfare without the spotting system.

Simply put, all targets will be constantly visible and the rendering distance will be increased to 2 kilometers. At the same time, all spotting UI components (most notably, enemy vehicle silhouettes and markers) will be disabled and you’ll have to do without the penetration indicator as well. You will only see your allies on the minimap, not your enemies.

In other words, you’ll have to rely on your eyesight only to acquire the targets. No camouflage or spotting mechanisms will function, which means that various camouflage- and spotting-related abilities, skills and modules will not function in this mode. Auto-aiming and other target tracking abilities will not function either. Additionally, we’ll be disabling some specific abilities that could break the mode completely. These include Ophelia Kitescu's and Alisa Korhonen's main abilities.

Now, if you’re worried about the impact of this mode on your statistics, don’t be. It will be a separate mode with its own queue and will not affect your player statistics in any way. At the same time, this mode will not work for the completion of Contract Missions.

Camouflage-wise, since the vehicles will only be possible to track visually, we strongly recommend using green, brown and grey patterns for each respective environment. As you can imagine, a red base paint or a skin that makes the tank look like it is on fire will make it really easy for your enemies to see you. Then again, maybe that’s exactly the effect what you’re going for!

In summation:

  • Spotting and camouflage mechanics are disabled
  • All vehicles are constantly rendered within the radius of 2000 meters from your vehicle
  • All spotting and tracking UI elements are disabled
  • Spotting and camouflage skills and retrofits are disabled
  • Only allies are shown on the minimap
  • Penetration indicator is disabled
  • Commander Ophelia Kitescu's and Alisa Korhonen's special abilities are disabled
  • Battle does not count towards Contract Mission progress
  • Battle does not count towards player statistics

The mode will be available for a limited time only (15 minutes per hour) and only for Tiers 7 to 10. For the sake of gameplay, the following vehicles will be excluded from it: SBS Pindad, Object 490, Leclerc T40, K-153C, RST-V Shadow and AS21.

There are three new achievements tied to it (with their own rewards) and we encourage you to complete them as soon as possible – once the mode gets retired, there’s no guarantee it’s ever coming back.

Thoughts on this? Looks interesting, but I doubt I'll touch it.


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I think it looks great, at least in theory, but I doubt I'll play it at all.  I've already seen comments that the excluded vehicles can, in fact, be used.  The Object 490 is practically a game-breaker for this mode, I would think, but hey what do I know.

I'm curious about how fire-and-forget missiles work.  It seems like Javelin-equipped vehicles might be even more powerful in this mode since it will be much harder to figure out where the incoming fire is coming from.  Regular ATGMs are pretty obvious and will require missile boats to play carefully.

Something as small as a Shadow could become an excellent spotter on a coordinated team.

I couldn't find the achievements, so no idea what they might be or how you might earn them.

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25 minutes ago, knutliott said:

I think it looks great, at least in theory, but I doubt I'll play it at all.  I've already seen comments that the excluded vehicles can, in fact, be used.  The Object 490 is practically a game-breaker for this mode, I would think, but hey what do I know.

Why not just try and see how it is? Can't hurt anyone. Yes obj 490 can be used but as far as I could see most people were fair and not using it. Apart from that even an obj 490 is not at all invincible in this mode.

27 minutes ago, knutliott said:

Something as small as a Shadow could become an excellent spotter on a coordinated team.

Very much theory given the teams are not at all coordinated nor are they able to effectively communicate positions. Firepower of a shadow is questionable at best. Kornet would be the better choice even if it's a bit bigger. But you can hide that thing just fine in most bushes as long as you don't fire.

28 minutes ago, knutliott said:

I couldn't find the achievements, so no idea what they might be or how you might earn them.

Achievements are hidden. Afaik those are all three available:

JheqK2l.pngIAdWbQ7.png2gdYhLI.png

 

The mode itself is actually much fun and rewards situational awareness as well as people who use the minimap. The others will teamkill you :kek:

I sincerely hope it will be available again in the future. Maybe similar to weekend specops or something like that.


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I have to say, some skills I never thought would be a thing in AW are now in this mode.

Knowing armor models and ammo types is a huge bonus if you have this to hand - quick switch ammo is really beneficial.  ID'ing models from a quick glance and cross checking map & scoreboards gives you a big advantage as you can remain hidden, know there is an enemy passing you and then nuke it. 

 

I've had a few great games in it, a few ones where I'm knocked out quickly....but overall it's actually a fun pvp mode.

 

Things I like - the render distance cap being removed.  For me I'm never sure why this was added in the first place and with it removed, it makes pvp better imo.  All tanks not being spotted does bring a higher level of skill into the game generally, and makes things like camo actually be worth equipping (with flags being a killer).  Smoke now acutally needs to be used with a brain.  No more popping smoke for instant invis as it will only block a direction (bar 360 smoke) so if you pop it the wrong way, you'll still be spotted.

Knowing maps and advanced positions you can push and when to push them, can make you really powerful.

 

Things I don't like - the team killing, it is an issue.  I have team damage disabled, but I've still managed to team kill with a stray ATGM, instant booted from the match :(  I've also had a match where there was 1 enemy left, a wiesel, which had disconnected, but my team being...well...my team, decided that they should shoot at anything they saw.  There were 8 of my team in the enemy spawn area and until this point, we'd lost 2 tanks.  My team decided that the only way to check if the other MBT's and Termi's they were looking at, was to shoot them.....so we lost another 3 tanks to team killing.  Yep...I was lost for words.

The maps do turn into camp fests in general as everyone is visible, so pushing up is difficult.  This can cause matches to stretch out.

Bushes not turning transparent when you go in them.  Not sure why this was changed, but it means if you want to hide in a bush, you need to have your optics sticking out, or else you just can't see anything.  

 

I know SS hinted that there are aspects that could come to future game modes, with the natural assumption this could be some kind of adaption to ranked.

So what would I like to see - the removal of render distance caps (when combined with standard spotting) so then advanced scouting would have a use for ALL of your team, not just those within 798m of the target.

No HP bars, or spotted things on minimap - I'm enjoying this at the moment, it's fun and new.  Would it work long term? I'm not sure.

Some form of team damage work around - I appreciate this makes it more realistic, but if we were going for realism, tanks had FOF (Friend or Foe) type things to designate them, so possible light tweaks so that a friendly would have some form of indicator or outline if you moused over for a second or two?

 

As I play more, I'll add more stuff.   But for an April fools type thing, I'm enjoying this mode :) I just wish you could complete missions in it!

 

 

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Gave me WarThunder vibes, but not quite. Need to update the damage models to get the most out of this mode. Would have been nice to seen used in PvE mode not just the useless PvP mode.

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The problem is spotting system which takes its origins from RTS games created 25 years ago. Its implementation in AW is far from ideal. That is why IMO the lack of spotting in "realistic mode" creates great relief and adds variety and more freedom, different use of maps in PvP. 

In PvE as active MBT you maybe spotted 100% of time and probably you feel how hopeless case is being bombarded by invisible bots (hello chop damage). Another story is playing TD/AFV in PvE as invisible vehicle, it is badly done both by PvE map design and spotting, I hardly see any fun in it.

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All you would need to do is keep the 2k draw distance in PvE, you can still use the normal spotting distance for target identification and bot engagement. This would solve the "nothing is shooting from across the map". The bots currently track the most threatening target beyond their spot range anyways, bots just don't shoot until you are spotted. 

Edited by JintoLin
grammar (see edit history)

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4 hours ago, JintoLin said:

All you would need to do is keep the 2k draw distance in PvE, you can still use the normal spotting distance for target identification and bot engagement. This would solve the "nothing is shooting from across the map". The bots currently track the most threatening target beyond their spot range anyways, bots just don't shoot until you are spotted. 

As much as this seems like a good idea, I would be a bit cautious about implementing it.

Being able to see targets from across the map could encourage more static and methodical behaviour (where players refuse to move up to new positions while there are still enemy vehicles visible even if they're not ID'd) and would reduce the importance of proper scouting and spotting. It might be possible to limit the behaviour effects by introducing or increasing environmental effects (heavy rain or snow) to reduce visibility. Another option that could mitigate some of these issues would be to have the render range for enemy vehicles scale based on the player's view range (scouts would benefit from the increased render range the most, while other classes would still be somewhat reliant on the spotting done by their teammates).

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20 hours ago, MK_Regular said:

As much as this seems like a good idea, I would be a bit cautious about implementing it.

Being able to see targets from across the map could encourage more static and methodical behaviour (where players refuse to move up to new positions while there are still enemy vehicles visible even if they're not ID'd) and would reduce the importance of proper scouting and spotting. It might be possible to limit the behaviour effects by introducing or increasing environmental effects (heavy rain or snow) to reduce visibility. Another option that could mitigate some of these issues would be to have the render range for enemy vehicles scale based on the player's view range (scouts would benefit from the increased render range the most, while other classes would still be somewhat reliant on the spotting done by their teammates).

WarThunder has the draw distance out to at lest 2k and most people move forward quite steadily. When you made a shot you effectively announced your position to everyone. This forced you to relocate most of the time. You had to be smart with your shots. Only a couple of times on only a few maps could I truly camp somewhere, one of the maps the dev's put my spot out of bounds on the map. I was also able to make 1mile kills with the longer draw distance, which was so fun with my dicker max.

In the couple of PvP matches I played in AW most of the teams were camping away with the current spotting system. Increasing the draw distance would discourage camping more than the current system. That is why AW does not allow arty in PvP matches. I can shoot at a target that is spotted for me and make shots on a target without them even knowing were I am even if I am sitting on a hilltop with no cover. Most players that I saw just camped and waited for the one or two players on their team to spot targets so they can pop out and make a shot or two, then go back to hiding. I believe that the draw distance used in AW was originally limited to reduce the load on the graphics cards due to game engine limitations rather than game play. The biggest issue is that when you shoot and are not spotted you are invisible. There needs to be a price you pay, in visibility, when you fire you main guns.

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4 hours ago, JintoLin said:

WarThunder has the draw distance out to at lest 2k and most people move forward quite steadily. When you made a shot you effectively announced your position to everyone. This forced you to relocate most of the time. You had to be smart with your shots. Only a couple of times on only a few maps could I truly camp somewhere, one of the maps the dev's put my spot out of bounds on the map. I was also able to make 1mile kills with the longer draw distance, which was so fun with my dicker max.

In the couple of PvP matches I played in AW most of the teams were camping away with the current spotting system. Increasing the draw distance would discourage camping more than the current system. That is why AW does not allow arty in PvP matches. I can shoot at a target that is spotted for me and make shots on a target without them even knowing were I am even if I am sitting on a hilltop with no cover. Most players that I saw just camped and waited for the one or two players on their team to spot targets so they can pop out and make a shot or two, then go back to hiding. I believe that the draw distance used in AW was originally limited to reduce the load on the graphics cards due to game engine limitations rather than game play. The biggest issue is that when you shoot and are not spotted you are invisible. There needs to be a price you pay, in visibility, when you fire you main guns.

Yes, the increased render range would work to discourage camping in PvP, but it would have the complete opposite effect in PvE.

It doesn't matter if a player "announces their presence" in PvE by shooting a bot because the bot is hard-coded to not fire at players unless they have been spotted by one of the bots. If the render range was increased for PvE without any mitigating or conditional factors I would expect more players to drive to a good vantage point and then sit there killing all of the bots that they can see without any risk of return fire because none of the bots can spot the player.

Earlier I suggested a few possible mitigating or conditional factors to the increased render range, but after reading your reply I think I can expand the list:

  • environmental factors (rain, snow, dust, etc...) that impede visual spotting
  • use the current spotting system, but have a draw range based on the player's view range in which all enemies will render
  • use the current spotting system, but firing automatically makes the player render on their enemies' screens for a brief period of time

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So given I've played a fair amount of realistic battles now I'm going to list some of the problems I encountered and some ideas for the remedy of those in case this mode ends up being permanent in some way.

First of all this is probably one of the best things AW devs came up with in the last couple years and for an April 1 mode it works surprisingly well and is a lot of fun. The mode itself is very unforgiving and in order to be successful you need to know the maps and how to play PVP in general. It's great that there is still a HP system in place unlike the more or less oneshot mechanics in WT which do have the tendency to become frustrating very fast. By using HP system smaller mistakes do not lead to instant kills which is a bit more forgiving and more fun for a broader range of players in my opinion.

I noticed the following problems currently:

Render distance of foliage:

On larger maps such as Pleternica the render distance of foliage (in 3rd person view) is too short. This leads to situations where you can see enemies in 3rd person who should be obscured by foliage. Example of this:

Wi1DzuS.jpg

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Obviously such shots should not be possible.

Regarding foliage it's a good thing that there is no transparency of bushes in the close area around your tank. Changing that would lead to pretty broken tactics where you can observe the whole battlefield while staying hidden yourself.

Teamdamage (and friend or foe identification):

First of all to make it clear in my opinion teamdamage should not be disabled at all in such "realistic" modes. It was always a big letdown to me in WT RB, because disabled teamdamage basically eliminates the need of identifying your target and doing a decision whether to open fire or not. The way the mode is currently designed encourages players to learn how to use the minimap and team tab as well as learning/identifying the various tank models.

Surprisingly this is the first mode where such a strict teamdamage-kick system makes sense. It's good that a player gets kicked on the first teamkill, it's a harsh punishment but I think a great incentive to learn out of the mistake made. Additionally I start to like the idea of mirroring teamdamage caused to the respective tank for the game in general. 

Additionally there should be a better audio/visual indication when you hit an ally. To me the current crew callout is not enough. I've seen plenty of people who put a ton of shots into allies before realizing they're doing teamdamage. I'm quite sure this could be improved in some way.

 

In the survey a tank silhouette outline was suggested to remedy the issue of telling your allies apart from enemies. Implementing this as an instant effect once you hover over a tank would kill a lot of the realistic battle feeling we currently have as it again eliminates the need to think before shooting. Watching the minimap, knowing your surroundings and having a good situational awareness should be rewarded which is the case currently but would get jeopardized by such an addition. If there really needs to be such mechanics to help players who can't manage to do that on their own it should come with a drawback. In form of a time delay for example. Aim at the tank for 3s before the silhouette outline shows (Basically the time your crew needs to recognise if the target is an enemy). This gives lesser experienced players a tool to tell friend from foe but still reward players who can do that on their own.

What I would like would be to add a discrete flag at the back of each tanks turret which could help visually identify an ally/enemy faster in case it's deemed necessary to implement such a thing. Though I fear that it would be too time consuming to implement.

AFVs/Scouting:

Right now the meta is pretty clear. In the battles I've played there were mostly MBTs which makes sense as armor is a pretty good advantage in this mode at longer distances. With the current meta being MBTs anyways it's only a natural thing to happen. Secondly powerful missile slingers like VCAC, Kornet or MGM or very small stuff like Weisel HOT work well. Mainly due to the high damage they deal on a hit or the fact that some of those vehicles solely need to expose the launcher in order to shoot.

AFVs were generally not a very good choice especially when those vehicles would need to rely on AC. Firing an AC exposes your position unlike anything else which limits the vehicles in a way they can only safely engage vehicles at close range which has drawbacks on its own. I feel like a solution to scout targets would need to be implemented for AFVs basically as a special ability like marking a target. But there would be no visual indicator but the marked enemy vehicle would appear on the minimap for a certain amount of time. This way the ability would not be insanely OP and still require the allies to find the enemy themselves. At the same time a good scout can give valuable information to the team and be rewarded for damage done on such a target for example. Very much like the the binocs in WT for except for the visual marker in the gameworld.

Also this would just needed to be added for certain AFVs, as some are already performing pretty well (like the Kornet for example).

 

That's just my thoughts on it. But I liked the mode was fun :sealofapproval:


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I agree with a lot of what Teykey has said - overall it's a good mode with a lot of fun in it.  

 

AFV's / very mobile tanks do come with a high risk / reward type playstyle as one thing they can do is speed behind enemy lines from early on and deal a lot of damage while confusing the enemy.  I mean getting hit for 2.5k 30s into a game, from behind was an interesting experience, that player was then able to kill 3/4 other tanks on my team because nobody expected that kinda play....so I adopted it in the next few games, picked a sphinx and got some good results :

image.png.f8b24d2197a6feebc4aa128dab875094.png

While not the highest damage I had, it was enough to confuse the enemy to the point where they'd either turn to face me - getting shot in the back - or let me farm them for damage.

 

Interestingly enough in the same game, the player that killed me used big brain moves - one of our players was also in a Merk and left the game @ launch.  So after killing me, he went and pretended to be afk in our base near our teams AFK merk.  I sat and watched one of my team, for some unknown reason, fire 4 shots into our friendly merk (from 5m away) and then get booted for team killing.  The enemy merk was killed after a while, but it was enjoyable to watch some high level thinking!

 

One thing I do think needs to be considered is some tanks can perform well with no possible come back - the example that springs to mind are 2 recent AFV's / TDs brought into the game.  The Khrizantema-S & Stalker.  Simply because they are designed to sit behind rocks and nuke things from a distance:

image.png.638037b9e3a6083ef71ddea493598798.png

The only reason I died was because I ran out of ammo so was just circling around a Merkerva on the cap...and as the last player, I physically couldn't do anything against a Merk capping so just accepted my fate.  

In most of the games I played in these, it was a case of driving to a point where I could safely shoot things and just nuke em down.  The double Thermobarics on the Khriz are awesome as nuking down anything it can see.  And when they pen, it's extra crispy for the enemy tank :)

 

 

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